The rubber meets the road for mindfulness practices with biology. Can altering one’s thought patterns actually change one’s biology? That’s one of the questions that Spanish researchers asked in the recent study, “Mindfulness-Based Program Plus Amygdala and Insula Retraining (MAIR) for the Treatment of Women with Fibromyalgia: A Pilot Randomized Controlled Trial“, which employed Ashok Gupta’s Amygdala and Insula Retraining Program. The study was published in the Journal of Clinical Medicine.
If there’s no evidence, and there isn’t any, of a psychological predisposition to ME/CFS/FM (chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia), then if people with ME/CFS/FM report that they feel exhausted, are in pain, are less able to relax, less able to concentrate, more on edge, are more prone to mood swings, etc. it stands to reason some biology is involved.
That would seem to make mindfulness/neuroplasticity practices the odd man out. Biology is biology and the mind is the mind – right? Examples abound, though, of instances where an accident or infection literally changed the kind of person a person was. In those cases, an altered biology clearly affected “the mind”.
Mindfulness/neuroplasticity therapies for ME/CFS/FM believe they can get at the problem from the other end. Most revolve around the same thesis – that the stress response in the brain is jacked up to the hilt – causing pain, hypervigilance, hypersensitivity issues, difficulty sleeping, energy depletion, etc. You can’t heal, they believe, because your body can’t really rest.
These practitioners generally attempt to reduce the unceasing barrage of alarm messages the brain is automatically (and unconsciously) pumping out when it’s in that state. A wide variety of methods – from meditation (to desensitize the system) to visualization (to inculcate peaceful scenarios) to catching negative thoughts (to tame the alarm signals) – just to mention a few – are employed to do this.
The big question is whether mindfully turning down the arousal can give the body enough room to start healing? Is that enough to make a dent in difficult diseases like fibromyalgia?
Different Angles – Similar Scenario?
Both scenarios propose that an overactive stress response plays a key role in ME/CFS.
It’s interesting that while Gupta and Komaroff/Lipkin approach chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) from different angles – one focused on neuroplasticity, and the others from a more physiological approach – their conception of the core problem is not all that different. The study reports that:
“The Amygdala and Insula Retraining Program (AIR) hypothesizes that “chronic over-sensitization and heightened fear response of the amygdala … keep the nervous system and the immune system in a state of heightened arousal.”
In the AIR workbook, Gupta states that he believes ME/CFS/FM is:
“caused by an over stimulation of these survival responses, these defense responses … (as a result) of the immune system, the sympathetic nervous system is overstimulated and it all results in too much inflammation … this uses up all our energy and leads to exhaustion.”
This is not so different from Komaroff and Lipkin’s proposal that in ME/CFS (and perhaps long COVID):
“the ‘unchecked persistence of a response’ to a stressor had triggered a cell danger response at the cellular level, and an ‘integrated stress response’ at the organism level.” That ongoing response left ME/CFS patients in a hibernation-like state where “essential energy-consuming processes” were “throttled down” – leaving only small amounts of energy left to be used for the basics of maintaining life.”
The question remains, though, can mindfulness techniques change the brain’s functioning enough so that it shows up on a brain scan or some other biological instrument? The answer is pretty clear here too. John Kabat-Zinn’s Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) protocol has been shown to improve prefrontal cortex activity as well as other parts of the brain, including the amygdala.
Fibromyalgia, though, is a complex and difficult-to-treat disease. Besides pain, it also causes fatigue, sleep, cognitive and sensory problems. It appears to affect more parts of the brain and is probably a harder nut to crack than most conditions.
A small 2012 study did attempt to assess the effectiveness of the Amygdala Retraining Program using a variety of questionnaires in ME/CFS and FM. The study found that while the program did provide statistically “significant improvements” in physical health, energy, pain, symptom distress, and fatigue scores, only about a third of the participants who started the program completed it. (Ashok Gupta stated that the program was “delivered by the study’s own therapists who were not trained in AIR, and who had only a cursory understanding (of it))
The Gupta study went further. It attempted to determine if mindfulness techniques could actually change the biology in people with fibromyalgia.
The Gist
- Mindfulness/neuroplasticity practices aimed at ME/CFS/FM generally assert that an overactive stress response is causing pain, fatigue, cognitive and sleep problems, etc. These practices tend to use things like meditation, mindfulness, breathing and relaxation exercises to turn the stress response down and hopefully allow the body to heal.
- A small Spanish study assessed the effectiveness of relaxation therapy and Ashok Gupta’s Amygdala and Insula Retraining (AIR) program in fibromyalgia using a variety of questionnaires and by measuring the levels of a factor called BDNF which has been associated with pain hypersensitivity states.
- The 8-week trial included daily homework, a weekly meeting with a therapist trained in these techniques, and a monthly meeting as well.
- The study found that Gupta’s mindfulness/neuroplasticity AIR program was far more effective than relaxation therapy in improving functionality, reducing symptoms and improving well-being. The AIR program also significantly reduced BDNF levels returning them to near normal.
- Over 80% of the AIR participants reported a 30% jump in functionality and about 1/3rd received a 50% increase in functionality. Anxiety and catastrophizing, etc. levels declined markedly as well. The participants still appeared to have fibromyalgia but they were generally much improved.
- Surprisingly, the effects of the program largely remained intact in a 3-month follow-up. In some areas, the participants continued to improve.
- While the authors called the AIR program an “innovative and effective treatment for improving several outcomes in patients with FM”, they also noted that the study was too small for “strong conclusions” to be drawn. Ashok Gupta reported that he was hoping to do larger-scale studies in fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS)
- In an interview, Gupta noted that he believes the term “mind-body” is inaccurate as he believes the brain is largely responsible for the symptoms found in ME/CFS/FM.
The Study
The parallel pilot, randomized, eight-week controlled trial (RCT) assessed symptoms and levels of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and inflammatory cytokines in two groups of people with fibromyalgia (FM). Thirty-four people participated in the small study.
One side of the study focused more on relaxation techniques while the other focused more on mindfulness/neuroplasticity techniques.
The two groups were well supported. One group did relaxation training (visualizations, autogenic relaxation, progressive relaxation, and breathing exercises), which consisted of daily homework assignments of about 15-20 minutes, plus 8 weekly 2-hour sessions, and 3 monthly sessions given by a therapist skilled in relaxation techniques.
The MAIR group did the mindfulness and meditation exercises in the Amygdala and Insula Retraining program, plus some techniques used in Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)* protocol. This group also had daily 15–20-minute homework assignments, as well as eight weekly 2-hour sessions, and three-monthly sessions with a therapist trained in MBSR and Amygdala and Insula Training (AIT).
(Ashok Gupta reported that he believed the most recent incarnation of the Gupta program is functionally equivalent to the MAIR program the researchers used. The older version was already quite similar as well.)
The study’s results were assessed using a variety of questionnaires – with a widely used functional questionnaire – the Fibromyalgia Impact Score (FIQ) – as the primary endpoint. Other questionnaires included the Clinical Global Impression-Severity Scale (CGI-S), the Pain Catastrophizing Scale (PCS), the Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale (HADS), the Visual Analogue Scale (VAS), Acceptance and Action Questionnaire (AAQ-II), The Five Facets of Mindfulness Questionnaire (FFMQ), and the Self-Compassion Scale (SCS).
Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF)
BDNF has been linked with pain hypersensitivity states and may play a key role in pain modulation, pain transduction, nociception, and hyperalgesia (pain hypersensitivity).
Since 2007, no less than 20 studies have assessed BDNF in different ways in FM. Increased BDNF levels have found in the blood and the cerebral spinal fluid of FM patients and two studies have identified a small genetic change called a polymorphism in the BDNF gene in FM. Several other studies, however, have not found evidence of altered BDNF levels in FM.
Study Results
The authors reported that the Gupta program:
“had moderate-to-large effect sizes—for improving a wide range of outcomes: functional impairment, clinical severity, and quality of life along with the cognitive processes … such as mindfulness, and self-compassion.”
Three months after the study was complete, most of the gains remained, with the participants posting – to the researchers’ surprise – continued improvements in clinical severity, perceived health, pain catastrophizing and psychological flexibility.
BDNF levels decreased significantly, and, in fact, approached normality. While a downward trend was seen in some cytokine levels, they did not decrease significantly. The authors noted that a recent fibromyalgia cytokine meta-analysis concluded that cytokines likely had only a small to moderate effect on FM.
Dropout rates were low in each group, with 86% and 84% completing the Gupta and RT arms respectively.
While the Gupta group didn’t reach normal functionality by the end of the study they were significantly improved.
The Gupta program was far more effective in improving functionality as 84% of the Gupta participants reduced their Fibromyalgia Impact Scores (FIQ) by 30%, while only 19% of the Relaxation Therapy (RT) participants did. With 36% of the Gupta participants achieving a greater than 50% reduction in their FIQ scores, the “number needed to treat (NNT)” was 3.
According to Wikipedia, an NNT of 2.5 indicates an “Effective treatment with moderate improvement over control”; i.e. the treatment was effective in producing a moderate improvement.
The numbers bore that out. The all-important functional impact (FIQ) scores dropped from 68 to 43 in the Gupta group (but didn’t drop at all for the Relaxation group.) (The 68 FIQ score at baseline in this study was similar to that found in a large European FM study.) Note that a completely healthy person would have an FIQ of zero.
- Calculate your FIQ score here
None of the RT participants achieved a greater than 50% reduction in their FIQ scores. The other scores followed a similar pattern:
- Gupta – 47% Increase in Perceived Health (EQ-VAS) vs 16% in the RT group
- Gupta – 46% Reduction in Pain Catastrophizing (PCS) vs 9% in the RT Group
- Gupta – 45% Reduction in Anxiety (HADS-A) vs 15% in RT group
- Gupta – 41% Reduction in Depression (HADS-B) vs 6% in RT Group
Both techniques employed meditation and visualization, but the Gupta program’s approach – which emphasized mindfulness and identifying negative thought patterns – was significantly more effective than the muscle relaxation, visualization, and breathing techniques employed in the RT control group.
The authors noted that the study was too small (n=34) to reach strong conclusions, and larger studies are needed. The study differed from a standard Gupta protocol in that it employed therapists (but see below), but it was also much shorter (8 weeks) than the standard Gupta program, which is designed to produce its effects over six months.
Summing up, they reported that they found the Gupta program “to be an innovative and effective treatment for improving several outcomes in patients with FM”.
Talking with Ashok Gupta
Gupta eschews the mind/body dichotomy, preferring to focus, instead, on the brain.
I know that Ashok Gupta has been wanting to test his AIT program in a study for years. I asked him what role he played in it. He replied:
“I did not have any involvement in the initiation or running of the trial. It was initiated by the University of Zaragosa in Spain, as they had seen improvements in patients and therefore wanted to independently test the protocol. I did provide the active treatment arm materials.”
The program added some components of MBSR (walking meditation, body scan?). I asked if the effort used differed much from that now offered by the Gupta program. Ashok replied that:
“The research team used the previous incarnation of the Gupta program which was not so heavy on mindfulness (although included meditation and exercises), whereas the updated program includes much more on it. So, the updated Gupta program is “MAIR”.”
The regular sessions with a therapist trained in these approaches must have helped. I asked Ashok if anything similar was available.
He reported that 30 trained Gupta Program Coaches are available to support people. He noted that while that is “important for some patients, others find the online materials and webinars enough to move forward.”
The program used to be the Amygdala Retraining Program. Now it’s the Amygdala and Insula Retraining Program. What is it you’ve learned about the insula that had you add to the title?
There is plenty of evidence that the insula in ME/CFS and fibromyalgia are impacted, and are no longer playing their role in modulation of the autonomic nervous system, the pain network, and the immune system, following the bombardment of internal signaling from the viscera. Furthermore, animal studies in the last 10 years have shown that conditioning of the immune system to otherwise neutral events has its base in the amygdala and insula. This has been proven by Dr. Pacheco-Lopez’s groundbreaking work. Therefore, the insula is where we hypothesize the conditioning of the immune reaction is stored in chronic illnesses.
It’s been a long time since I tried the program but it seemed to me that the while core parts of the program (“soften and flow”, the retraining technique, meditation) are similar to the one I tried over a decade ago, the program has been considerably expanded. The Manual looks to be about double the size of the former one and contains numerous modules and techniques. Some of the aspects that seemed new to me, at least, included a technique called “the accelerator”, sections on “retraining the protector”, the “slow-motion technique”, the “Groove technique” and others.
Gupta asserted that the new program is easier to use and more comprehensive, and includes more information on mindfulness. He also believes it works better for people who are bedbound than the old program did and includes more information on staying well after getting better.
I asked Ashok why he thought the mindfulness/neuroplasticity approach was more effective than relaxation therapy.
The relaxation of a general system does not target the specific network that is over responding, and it may not respond to a general calming of the overall brain and body. Neuroplasticity is about engaging with a specific neuronal network that is over-responding and retraining it, which naturally allows the whole system to calm down. But the other way around doesn’t work half as well!
Finally, I asked him about the controversy regarding mind/body protocols and ME/CFS.
“The reason for this controversy is that it is modern medicine that creates this artificial cartesian dichotomy. That somehow there is a separation between mind and body. We have one nervous system which is like the electrical system of a car, and connects to all organs and functions in the body. And the brain is the head of the nervous system.
That one nervous system is responsible for physical, mental, and emotional processing and survival. For instance, the amygdala was before only implicated in emotional responses before, however, now it has been implicated in everything from pain responses to immune responses.
Therefore, we do not call ourselves a “mind-body” approach nor a psychological approach. This is a neuroplasticity approach, indicating that the reason for these conditions is based in faulty neural wiring that can be corrected. And that brain retraining/neuroplasticity is a whole new branch of modern medicine that has crossovers with the term “Bio-electrical” medicine (Something you referred to in a recent article).
So, we hope that gradually as people realize the impact of the “brain” on the body, they will not see these approaches as controversial anymore. The controversy comes because patients have previously been dismissed as it “being in the mind” and therefore we are seen as undermining the mainstream advocacy of these illnesses amongst patient groups.
But we say it is not in the mind, but “in the brain”. It is unconscious and usually beyond conscious awareness, with real physical symptoms. But these unconscious processes can be influenced and gradually retrained. It is similar to brain retraining techniques used for phantom limb pain. So, I hope that over time the controversy will ease and people will embrace this approach.”
Conclusion
This small study found an 8-week course of the Amygdala and Insula Retraining program (AIR) when supported by a therapist trained in the technique – effectively improved functionality and symptoms in many people with FM.
Over 80% of FM patients improved their functionality scores by at least a third, and a third of the participants improved their functionality by at least 50%. Some improvements continued to increase three months after the 8-week study had been completed. The levels of a neurotrophic factor (BDNF) associated with pain hypersensitivity fell to near normal by the end of the study. Cytokine levels were not significantly affected. The participants had not recovered from FM but they were clearly improved.
Parleying the results of the study to someone doing the online Gupta program is a bit problematic. The fact that the course was supported by a therapist trained in the program probably boosted results. On the other hand, the Gupta course is designed to produce its effects in 6 months, not the 8 weeks of this study. Gupta believes the longer course done online can produce more results.
While the dropout rates for both practices were low, the relaxation therapy approach was not nearly as effective as the AIR program. Functionality – the prime endpoint in the study – was not improved, and no significant declines in BDNF were seen.
The authors warned that larger studies are needed to validate these findings, but for now, Gupta’s approach – developed using practices that he used to recover from ME/CFS/FM – seems to be, if you’re interested in trying neuroplasticity approaches, the more effective track. Find out more about the AIR here.
Gupta reported that he’s is actively seeking to partner with researchers and institutions to initiate a larger-scale phase 3 trial on ME/CFS and/or Fibromyalgia.”
About 8 months ago I received a gratis copy of the AIR program. (I have not tried it yet.) Other than that Health Rising is not associated in any manner with the Amygdala and Insula Retraining Program.
@Cort, do you know if this retraining increased the size or only the function of the Amygdala? Has there been any MRI scans to say if there was an increase? That might would promote this program better if there was some more tangible evidence. A NeuroQuant could tell this and is an up and coming thing for telling the physical status of the brain structure and changes. It can tell if there is inflammation or atrophy.
NeuroQuant would be really interesting. So far as I know – no brain scans yet.
I have been using the Gupta program for last few months and have noticed it has helped me with my ME/CFS. Mostly mental, emotional, psychological improvement, and a little physical improvement. I do recommend it highly as one aspect of our recovery. Of course medical breakthroughs are necessary to cure the physical symptoms.
The genes associated with dysfunction of BDNF are also associated with ADHD. If there is polymorphism on these snps it could indicate more issues with BDNF function.
This information was found on SelfDecode. I love this site. You have to be a member. It has provided so much useful information and helped me find some useful WHYs based on genetics.
Primary SNP
BDNF rs56164415
‘G’ = Increased risk of ADHD‘A’ = Not associated with ADHD
Other Important SNPs
BDNF rs11030104
‘A’ = Increased risk of ADHD‘G’ = Not associated with ADHD
BDNF rs7103411
‘T’ = Increased risk of ADHD‘C’ = Not associated with ADHD
BDNF rs2049045
‘G’ = Increased risk of ADHD‘C’ = Not associated with ADHD
BDNF rs10835210
‘A’ = Increased risk of ADHD‘C’ = Not associated with ADHD
BDNF rs11030101
‘A’ = Increased risk of ADHD‘T’ = Not associated with ADHD
That’s interesting. My ME doctor has the impression that ADHD is over represented among ME patients. Many seem to be very active over achievers.
I wish I could remember where I found a strong association between fibromyalgia and perfectionist workaholics!
The suggested ADHD association is interesting too: with stress hugely increased not just by habitually taking on far too much, but also holding oneself to perfectionist standards. Meaning not enough time to sleep, hardly anything gets finished, and it’s never good enough…
I have adhd and me/cfs
At least one study suggests ADHD is common in fibromyalgia. Personally, I would be shocked if it wasn’t in ME/CFS as well.
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2018/01/20/adhd-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-fibromyalgia/
The sever long haulers I know (including me) have severe ADHD as well.
I find what you share here fascinating. I healed using the Gupta Program From 5% fully bedbound with ME/CFS, Fibro, PoTs, OH, FND and many other conditions (I had fulltime care) and I am now fully healthy thanks to the program. I was diagnosed with ADHD Combined just a few months ago myself, and it seems there are many like me within the ME community, the program actually helped me with many of my ADHD tendancies I believe which helped the overall healing process.
Hi Julie, congratulations on your recovery! Can I ask, was your cfs/me sudden or gradual onset, and did you knowingly get a virus immediately prior to getting cfs/me?
Thanks, Charlie.
Hi Cort,
Thanks for all of the amazing things that you post for us. It is beyond helpful! And thanks for this article.
I wondering why you chose not to write about the “ANS Rewire” program, done be Dan Neuffer. Perhaps you haven’t heard of it?
It is specific to ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia, as well as EMS and MCS. It involves a lot of well researched advice on the diet, sleep, healing gut issues, etc that are specific to these illnesses, as well as wonderful, in-depth guidance on rewiring our own brains (based solidly on the science of neuroplasticity). Further, there is ample support in looking into any deeper issues that may… or may not… be at play.
I have read several comments made at the end of some of the lessons stating that ANS Rewire is superior to Gupta, that it is more user friendly, easier to follow and more “humane” to our own minds and bodies.
It’s a fantastic program done by a man who cured himself of ME/CFS, so he has a real handle on this.
Please check it out!
Thanks,
Pam
I have taken both Gupta and ANS rewire and think the Gupta program is better.
Thanks, Pam, Dan is clearly getting results and I love his focus on the ANS. I have his book, my partner with ME/CFS read it and really enjoyed it and I have intended to check out the program and write about it for years. That’s pretty much par for the course, though. I have a blog to-do list that is probably 100 items long and as I noted in the blog I’ve had a copy of the Gupta program for about 8 months now – and haven’t done it (lol). Dan has agreed to be interviewed for the Ending Suffering blog series by the way so you’ll definitely see him there.
Cort, there are three articles about Dan Neuffer here on your blog. The last one was unrelated to his ANS Rewire program, but the other two, one of which I he authored (or maybe both), were related to his program. I just did a blog search on here. I enrolled in the ANS Rewire program. Dan has really done an excellent job researching everything, and the way he lays it all out is exceptional. However, I found it almost too in-depth and complex. I tried the original Gupta program years ago, with the floor map diagram, but lost interest repeating the same script so many times a day. I will take a look at his newer program and see what’s changed. Thanks as always for this great information!
Thanks Judith. How quickly we – I mean I – forget. Then again, I forget about blogs that I did… Yes, Dan has published several blogs on HR and we’ve done several blogs on his work. They’re notable for how many comments they received :).
Unraveling the Cause of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia? Recovered Author Asserts Single System to Blame – https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2013/02/24/a-single-cause-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-core-system/
Do People Really Recover From ME/CFS and/or Fibromyalgia? An Inquiry – https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2015/09/17/do-people-really-recover-from-mecfs-andor-fibromyalgia-an-inquiry/
When Retreat Means Advance: A Recovered Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Fibromyalgia Patient Looks Back – https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2016/08/19/recovered-chronic-fatigue-fibromyalgia-patient-looks-back/
A Positive Prognosis For CFS/Fibromyalgia/POTS (Could It Help?)- https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2017/10/12/prognosis-cfs-fibromyalgia-pots/
A Reluctant Patient: How Dan Neuffer’s Medical Past Almost Cost Him His Life – https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2018/06/27/neuffer-hospital-fears-chronic-fatigue-fibromyalgia-life/
Interesting study, thank you for presenting it! This may certainly be a program that supports a lifestyle inside a given “energy envelope”, so some gains may be related to this?
Also, I wonder what role vagal activation may play (which may be associated with the exercises and the increased mindfulness). Vagal activation may tone down neuroinflammation and is now being used in some autoimmune disorders with fatigue. Effects on autonomous functioning have also been shown: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1935861X14002605
Also, some ME/CFS patients have reported improvements from vagal stimulation (for me personally it is a great support). So just a thought about possible underlying “mechanisms”. There may be many ways to improvement!
Hi, that sounds fascinating, could you please elaborate on how you have performed a gal stimulation?
Thank you Cort, for all that you present on this site. Can anyone compare this program with the DNRS program? I cannot do an online program, and the DNRS program has a transcript available.
Unfortunately, I have not been good with either of these programs. I focused almost entirely on the process part of both programs and neglected the rest and the Gupta program has become much more comprehensive now.
From my experience the DNRS focuses more on getting in touch with past memories. That’s an important feature of the Gupta program but I think there’s more emphasis on that in the DNRS. Besides that the new Gupta program with all its modules and techniques appeared to me to be quite more comprehensive.
It’s also probably a bit more attuned to the ME/CFS/FM audience as the DNRS program was originally designed for people with chemical sensitivities while the AIR program was designed for people with ME/CFS/FM. Annie Hopper battled severe chemical sensitivities while Ashok Gupta had ME/CFS.
The Gupta program does come with a large very readable manual – larger than the DNRS manual – if I remember correctly. I was quite impressed with it. All the techniques are there – so the text is all there.
This response is so helpful, Cort. I, too, have struggled with DNRS and am now going to give Gupta a crack. I appreciate this article.
Good luck!
If I recall correctly Cort, you do fairly well on (some) mild stimulants and so does a sizable subgroup of ME/FM/… patients. I’m one of those.
I seem to need a minimum level of stress hormones in order to stay “stable” health wise. While many view (chronic elevation of) stress hormones as a bad or even evil thing, stress hormones like (nor-)adrenaline can and will increase breathing ability and redirect blood flow to the brain.
For a subgroup of patients, the stress system may play a key role in keeping those vital functions at a minimum level in order to not worsen health. If so, programs lowering stress hormones might have a precondition that needs to be filled before having good outcomes: the body might need to be able to do these basic functions (breathing, blood flow to critical organs) well enough before such programs have good enough outcomes.
I for example easily got keyed up every time I tried to relax or meditate and that is the opposite outcome of what is expected. So maybe me being able to relax more sort of sawed a leg from underneath my own chair: it maybe brought stress hormones below levels needed to sustain key abilities like breathing well. Now that I am slowly recovering, I seem to better “tolerate” relaxation.
Yes I do respond strongly to mild stimulants (like small sips of coffee or tea). I mostly gave them up due to problems with dizziness, tinitus and heart palpitations. While I was doing them, though, they did calm me and steady me generally.
I hope to have an interview on stimulants coming up.
Thank you, Cort, as always ,for the informative reports. I am not familiar with the specifics of Gupta’s program but his rational seems to fit with Annie Hopper’s DNRS program. Both regard ME/CFS as a brain injury and use neuroplasticity and brain training to create new neural pathways that allow the body to heal. I used the DNRS in 2018 to regain my life after living with ME/CFS for many years (thanks for sharing my story – January 2020). From a wheelchair I now walk a few miles a day and have engaged in a work life again. I echo Gupta’s concern about the false dichotomy over mind/body and share his understanding of the body as bio-electrical. I am delighted that researchers are beginning to study these programs. I do hope that functional MRIs become a part of the protocols and look at what is happening in the brain when participants are doing their “brain-training”. You note that Annie Hopper uses memories, but do not note that it is in a very particular way as a mechanism to create new neural pathways. When I was practicing my brain-training that incorporated positive memories (or invented stories!), I wished that I could be in a study with functional MRIs so I could show what was happening. My hope is that research into these methods will help in understanding the pathogenesis of ME/CFS/FM and lead to other breakthroughs in treatments, including pharmaceuticals, manual therapies, given that one size does not usually fit all.
By Margaret Cory (13th June 2021)
After a lifetime of battling on against life’s challenges, of all varieties, I conked out aged 53, having to stop work, diagnosed with M.E./CFS and told I would never recover or be able to work again.
10 years later in January 2010, I found the Gupta Program. By this time I had also been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and I had MCS and various and increasing food and other sensitivities. I thought I was heading for a life in a sterile environment with no human contact.
Instead, I got better. The Gupta techniques and support system enabled me to calm my limbic system down from being permanently (as it had seemed) stuck in Fight, Flight and Freeze.
Once calm my body was able to heal itself from all the amygdala loop challenges, and also from other health issues which were not amygdala loop challenges but had appeared in recent years after my full recovery from CFS/fibro/MCS etc.
I have been fully recovered now for over 10 years.
I live in serenity, calm and content. My life is full of joy and I am able to do a few hours every day “working” voluntarily as well as having a busy and active life as a retired person.
By Margaret Cory (13th June 2021)
After a lifetime of battling on against life’s challenges, of all varieties, I conked out aged 53, having to stop work, diagnosed with M.E./CFS and told I would never recover or be able to work again.
10 years later in January 2010, I found the Gupta Program. By this time I had also been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and I had MCS and various and increasing food and other sensitivities. I thought I was heading for a life in a sterile environment with no human contact.
Instead, I got better. The Gupta techniques and support system enabled me to calm my limbic system down from being permanently (as it had seemed) stuck in Fight, Flight and Freeze.
Once calm my body was able to heal itself from all the amygdala loop challenges, and also from other health issues which were not amygdala loop challenges but had appeared in recent years after my full recovery from CFS/fibro/MCS etc.
I have been fully recovered now for over 10 years.
I live in serenity, calm and content. My life is full of joy and I am able to do a few hours every day “working” voluntarily as well as having a busy and active life as a retired person.
My recovery story video can be found at the Gupta Program website and is accessible to anyone, not just those who have bought the program (along with many other success stories.
https://www.guptaprogram.com/margaret-cory-success-story/
Wow, so inspiring. Can I ask whether your onset of cfs/me was sudden and whether there might have been a virus involved?
I watched the Gupta video (thanks for sending the link, Cort) and it seemed a little hippie psychological. What are his “techniques”? It really struck me as more a treatment for depression than anything else. Plus a little pushy on the marketing. Am I wrong?
I don’t think many of his techniques are used in depression actually. I would have to look further but different mindfulness and meditation techniques as well as neuro-linguistic reprogramming are used.
I would argue that most of us – including healthy people – are depressed – at least relative to what we could be. For me, mindfulness/neuroplastic practices are something that everyone – depressed or not – can benefit from. They are huge in the business world for people wanting to get ahead.
As to marketing – yes – people who connote marketing with subterfuge or something fishy will have trouble with that aspect of it.
I was also very suspicious when i came across the gupta program in the past. It seems to heavily focus on marketing, the public videos you can access give no real information on what the program is or what steps you can take to supposedly heal yourself, and everything else is hidden behind a paywall. It just seems exactly like all of the other charlatans who scam sick people…
There is, I believe, a money-back guarantee if you don’t find the program helps.
If you’re put off by marketing – which is probably necessary to be in the business – then you’re going to have trouble giving something like that a try. I ask you, though, why would anyone tell people how to do the program – and then try and sell it?
Of course, Gupta is not going to give you the steps of the program. For one, how is he going to then sell it? For two – you don’t get the program simply by following the steps, the program is embedded in a large manual and with DVD’s which supports the practices. They are crucial to getting you to fully participate in the program.
Hi Cort, Since ME/CFS involves PEM with even mental exertion, could this kind of a program do more harm than good? I know I’m not alone in that meditation and relaxation exercises stress me out!
I think you just have to try it and see. We’re a strange group aren’t we? I remember Dr. Pocinki showing that the autonomic nervous system doing strange things to some people with ME/CFS who were meditating. Their systems got more activated! For others meditation clearly helps.
From what I can tell – not having done the new program – “observation” is an important part of the overall program. I think just about everybody could do that.
Even the core retraining technique requires observation at the beginning for it to work. The other parts of the retraining technique might be too much for a few but I would note that observation is quite powerful in and of itself, can produce a lot of calming, and gets you in the door for other stuff.
The program might actually be better for you because while it includes meditation processes, it’s more focused on mindfulness and neuroplasticity…
Maybe Ashok could chime in as he stated that he believes the new program is better suited for the severely ill than the old program.
Thank you, that’s very interesting!
Hi Cort, thanks very much for reporting on this. You wouldn’t happen to recall where Dr Pocinki speaks about some ME/CFS patients becoming paradoxically stimulated by meditation? This is precisely what happens to me.
While mindfullness meditation can get me into trouble Gupta’s main technique works very well at calming my wiredness. However, for one reason or another I’ve not continued with the program for more than a couple weeks. Will try again this summer.
@Jo, dufresne:
Would you by chance do well with mild stimulants like weak coffee for example? Weak coffee helps me for example to sleep, which is quite contrary. I drink it every night before going to bed. By chance, caffeine helps to breathe too and I can get into trouble with breathing at night.
The same roughly holds for nor-adrenaline: it helps to breathe better. Using techniques to bring it down *could* get those people relying on those stress hormones in more trouble and have “other parts” of the stress system having to flare up to make up for the deficiency.
Dysfunction Junction by Pocinki – fascinating. Staci Stevens says our ANS doesn’t know where to go. This suggests that she’s right.
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2017/06/24/dysfunction-junction-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-autonomic-nervous-system/
Hopefully in the future all aspects of an individuals health will be taken into account, without prejudice from any angle. I found Dan Neuffer and his CFS Unravelled website and then his book, long before I became aware of the massive injustices and poor quality research from the psychological arena.
So much damage has been done and I feel people are now wary (understandably) of any approach that may infer any kind of connection with their mind.
Anyway, having said that, I have had a long standing interest in mental health, trauma etc., and subsequently trained as a counsellor. And I know there have been changes in my brain, my sympathetic nervous system response (I call Ancient Brain) my immune system,
energy availability and so on. I spend a lot of time, energy and thought, trying to navigate my way through my everyday life and use what resources I have to get by.
Personally, I am aware of how my brain/mind is much more unstable than it used to be, before I was very unwell in 2017. Having worked previously in challenging interpersonal situations, where I needed to draw on a steady and well grounded base, I am now acutely aware that this is not necessarily so reliable anymore. Now, I don’t/can’t work in those areas.
For me, any way that I can access Sensible, Level Headed Tracey, is a good thing. Life appears much more manageable, when she’s at the helm. So, for me being aware of what I am eating is very important. This has a massive influence (for whatever reason) I believe on the health and functioning of my brain, my mental health and stability. And then also being in touch with the natural world around me – the plants, trees, birds etc. I think whatever path someone finds – through a program such as Ashok Gupta’s, Dan Neuffer’s, Annie Hopper’s or their own, I think we have to take into account all the aspects of ourselves, which are relevant in regaining whatever level of health we can.
The tools and techniques taught in the Gupta Program, along with the coaching, were instrumental in my recovery from Fibromyalgia, ME/CFS and the secondary conditions of POTS, Complex Regional Pain Syndrom, Temporal Lobe Seizures, and Lyme Disease.
The paced approach and the additional support provided (coaching, live webinars, meditations, exercises) made it possible for me to follow the program and feel fully supported. Unfortunately, I found other brain retraining programs that used the Bootcamp approach to be too intense and didn’t allow me to tailor the retraining to suit my particular circumstances.
I used the Gupta program to fully regain my health. I now live a happy and healthy life that I am so blessed to have!
I encourage anyone with complex chronic health challenges to look at it! It is a reasonable cost and it is cutting edge neuroscience that we can implement into our own life, without depending on something or someone else to cure us. It is getting to the root cause of these illnesses.
I know many people who have also used the Gupta program to heal.
The Gupta program cured me from CFS/M.E, POTS, Lyme, chemical, mold and food sensitivities and the other labels/diagnoses I had been given.
Prior to the Gupta program, I spent 10 years implementing so many protocols and traveling all over the United States to see doctors that specialized in the diagnoses that I had been given. As many of you can relate, I spent a fortune trying to get well. At many points I felt completely hopeless. Life was all about survival and pain.
Prior to my success with the Gupta program, I attended the DNRS live and implemented this program wholeheartedly for over a year. I had some success with it and had an amazing DNRS coach, but I couldn’t fully heal with it.
When I switched to Gupta, I regained my health fully! It is delivered in an easy to understand and comprehensive way. I learned why my personality traits weren’t allowing me to get well, but most importantly how to change and embrace my peaceful and authentic self. The advanced meditations and tools calmed my nervous system/limbic system and allowed my body to heal completely.
I am now living my life with joy and resilience.
For anyone doubting the Gupta program, please dive into it with curiosity and embrace it- and then decide. Some people make conclusions without full comprehension or experiencing the program fully.
Shonna, you mentioned that you had personality traits that weren’t allowing you to get well. Can you elaborate on this? I’m not sure if you mean behaviors e.g. over-achiever like many of us have.
Seems to me a little high on marketing and low on content. One study done in Spain is hardly impressive.
Possibly my reaction is because it seems to me that so much of the “content”, from what he will divulge, has been around for a long time, and is just being retread.
Seems to me a little shameful to charge money for it.
Yes, as the authors noted this was a small study and bigger ones are needed to validate the results.
I don’t know how much of the content is retreaded or is original. I imagine that both are found in the course. This was a critique of the EST training. Some of it did derive from past practices but it was put together in a package that was way more effective than those past practices.
Gupta has put together a nice, professionally designed package. He has coaches and staff (office personnel) to pay, a website to run, designers to build it, DVD’s to produce, manuals to produce, probably advertising – most businesses require advertising – that all takes money – as, of course, does personal needs such as rent, food, etc. No different, really, than any other business.
On the subject of Gupta having staff to pay, a couple of years ago he had a bunch of devotees doing moderating on his FB group without being paid. This amounted to up to four hours a day for someone I knew who was doing it (someone who was sick and low income). To me this approach seems more cult like than business life
Actually, the same thing applies with regard to the Landmark organization that I participate. Much of it is run by volunteers – who promise to get more out of “assisting” than they put into it. Sometimes people really enjoy helping.
Cults use the same approach
I think if you check out this – https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-cult-5078234 – you’ll find that ARP does not fit.
It does not mention having volunteers by the way. Non-profits, for instance, run on volunteers. Health Rising has a volunteer editor we would have trouble doing without. ME/CFS Forums are almost entirely, if not entirely run by volunteers. Consider that people who have improved the Amygdala Retraining program may simply want to give back and enjoy doing so.
For a charity, church, not for profile (e.g. a 12-step group)–sure. But Landmark is a for-profit company. From the outside, it seems incredibly entitled and grandiose (narcissistic) to use free labour to support a for-profit organisation. The woman I knew labouring for free for Ashok was not recovered. She was a sick, low-income single mum. A big part of her role was censoring any dissent in Gupta groups–and by dissent I mean criticism of the program or aspects of it or people just expressing frustration that they weren’t getting better. Personally I found it disgusting
Again, Rob – people are VOLUNTEERING to do these things – not being dragooned into them. If your single low-income mum wanted to volunteer to help out the program so be it. Years ago I did a lot of volunteer work for Landmark – and loved it! My arm was not being twisted, I was not cajoled into doing it – I simply enjoyed participating in that – and that’s how the whole “assistants” program began – because people wanted to be in that space and support it. It may sound foreign to you there’s something about giving freely of your time to something that can be quite enriching.
The fact that people are of their own free will volunteering to help the Gupta program says something about the program itself.
All this proves is that some people diagnosed with fibromyalgia really have psychosomatic illness.
What a terrible term that is but thank you for bringing it up. The term psychosomatic connotes a disease that is not real but that is no so. Any disease that involves or impacts the stress response could be termed psychosomatic.
https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/psychosomatic
The Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition lists the following diseases as fitting into the psychosomatic definition which includes diseases where physical symptoms are either caused or exacerbated by psychological factors: migraine headache, lower back pain, irritable bowel syndrome, asthma, peptic ulcer, bowel disorders, cardiovascular disorders, arthritis, allergy, headache, and certain endocrine disorders. The passage also refers to autonomic nervous system disorders.
The world is much too complex for a pejorative term like psychosomatic. In ME/CFS even positive events can be problematic. That’s my experience anyway.
I did the gupta program after unsuccessfully trying other similar program that was not really geared towards cfs. I had me/cfs and Fibromyalgia for 6 years chronic neck pain and MCAS for 3. I found Gupta easy and soothing to watch in short videos that helped me absorb the info even with the conditions. It helped me go from daily anaphalaxis to none and my me/cfs is now 80 % gone, fibro 90% gone, pain 95% gone, mcas 50%gone. I’m still following the program after 18 months and feel sure that I will teach full recovery. I have gone back to masters study and some work now and I thoroughly enjoy life. I remember being at rock bottom wishing for even 20% improvement, so to be here is amazing! It’s worth every penny and much cheaper than all the treatments I used before.
From a user perspective, for me doing the Gupta Program has been a full body and mind experience. It has been about learning a new way to view life and the inevitable challenges it brings. I have been on the program for a year and am still very much a work in progress. The improvements in my health have been marked and the improvement in my outlook, outstanding. I have moved from surviving with a chronic condition to living and thriving with a condition that is not as chronic as it was and is continuing to get better. For years my life had been on hold until I got better; now I am enjoying things again. After more than 12 years of health struggles I finally feel comfortable in my own skin again and am enjoying the journey of recover. Too me this is invaluable.
Hi Cort,
I’m not sure what to think of this program. I perceive it as a big marketing project, but also think that mindfulness is always a good thing in whatever situation you’re in. I’m a long hauler suffering from fatigue and PEM, pretty severe. I can’t believe that would help me in any way. But there’s also. the story of my mother, she had FM and recovered after reducing her stress, takin antidepressant to relax her nervous system and religion.
The program surely has its benefits for some people with minor symptoms or depression.
The Amygdala theory is a good story and since we have no official explanation for ME, we can’t judge, because we have no argument against it. However it is a bit too simple imo.
I see people commenting how the program cured their disease here. Seems to me like their part of the marketing team…
Cheers
B
I think you’re in a good place – skeptical yet open. And yes, some of the stories seem a bit polished, don’t they? I assume that they are real, though.
We need bigger and longer studies to see how often these dramatic recoveries occur. I believe they do occur but am not sure that they occur so often. It would be nice to find out.
so after all, ME patients have a disease based on anxiety stress via the amygdala or ANS activation which can be treated well with Gupta therapy or mindfulness. It almost seems too good to be true. Although I do think it can help ME patients with an overactive ANS or stress system. But it remains a walking stick for a crippled person.
Also, this topic and the reactions of some people is an example of prefect marketing.
I agree it does seem wild. I would give the stress response more reach – it potentially affects metabolism, the immune and cardiovascular systems. I would think in terms of anxiety, though. People with anxiety can still exercise – we obviously can’t.
As to the dramatic recovery stories – they’re all anecdotal and we have no idea how often they occur. Bigger and longer studies are needed for that. The study showed moderate but impressive gains. The participants still had health problems.
For me, my guess is that the recovery stories are probably relatively rare, but that for most of those who benefit AIR program can be helpful to turn down the stress response, improve health, and being used as an adjunct to other treatments.
If you check out the AIR you’ll see that a rather impressive array of functional medicine doctors who have incorporated AIR into their practices. They haven’t abandoned other parts of their practice but they’ve simply made it a part of them.
https://www.guptaprogram.com/
Yes it does seem wild! I appreciate that it is hard to believe that so many people are recovering from complex chronic health issues by implementing a neuroplasticity program into their life.
Because we try so many programs and protocols we loose hope and are so used to being let down. I used to be critical and sceptical of everything, after so many years of desperately attempting to regain my health. I also was addicted to researching and thinking I knew so much. It was an identity that I had unknowingly and subconsciously created.
I was so fortunate, because I then met people who recovered using the Gupta program. This built my trust and curiosity. I started researching neuroplasticity and my whole focus changed.
To anyone who is reading these comments, please consider looking at the Gupta program. Please keep your hope and know that you can recover! Once you join, you will be able to participate in Ashok Gupta’s weekly live interactive webinars, where you will hear and see his genuine commitment and care in supporting people recover. Ashok allows people to spontaneously share their own progress and recovery stories, so you get to hear first hand that it is also possible for you. There is also a forum that you will meet people who are getting well…..
You will soon learn that the recovery stories are NOT rare. They are very common. Even people that are bed bound or very compromised, regain their health.
Thank goodness that Ashok Gupta is marketing his neuroplasticity program, so that more people can reclaim their health and their live. The fee he charges for his program is far below what he should charge, in my opinion.
I’ve just watched an interesting interview, available on YouTube, by Gez Medinger and it’s called ‘How to treat Dysautonomia in Long Covid with Ashok Gupta and Dr Tamsin Lewis.’ They’re discussing many of the points made above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04DzTQrgWQ
The Gupta program changed my life. Interesting to see all the doubting comments. One of the most profound parts of the program was that my mental perspective changed. The first bit of the program is free on YouTube. I tried DNRS prior, but found real healing here. Best of luck to you all.
For anyone who wants to try risk free, there is a free app called The Meaning of Life Experiment which is a Gupta program. I’ve been on the fence and am trying the app to check it out.
•take good care.
I am always wary of the bad science or assumptions that can underlie claims of the mind-body connection. I think much harm has been done to FM and ME/CFS patients under this guise. Clearly, FM and ME/CFS have neurologic components, but that doesn’t mean that those components are modifiable by thinking, therapy, mindfulness or the Gupta technique. There needs to be a clear and coherent explanation of my some aspect of the mind will help a particular part of the neuro, immune, metabolic, or other aspect of the illness. We also need to explain why we are only offering mind treatments to people with FM or ME/CFS people.
Mindfulness helps with pain control, but we don’t expect people with broken limbs or surgery to forgo medication and just use the power of their mind. Why would we ask people with fibro to do so, unless there is an unspoken assumption that the pain in FM or ME/CFS is somehow different? Different here tends to mean less valid or “real” in some way. My litmus test is this. If a treatment wouldn’t be offered to people with diseases that are accepted to be neuro or neuro immune, like MS, it should not be offered as treatment for FM or ME/CFS.
I’m sure that mindfulness and most things in the Gupta program can make a person feel better, or feel better about being sick. But adjunctive treatment that provides symptomatic relief is not treating the underlying illness. Promoting these types of therapies as treatment for FM, instead of for symptoms of pain for example, can give the misimpression that FM and ME/CFS are all in the mind.
I agree with you.
In fact, I’ve been sick long enough that I remember back to 2011-2012, when Gupta was trying to sell his program to people with ME/CFS. (When you’ve been sick as long as I have, you see the same ineffective ideas unfortunately recirculating after a while.) And people were actively talking about it on e-forums, within support groups, etc. There were a few stories of people feeling slightly better but no one I knew of personally (and I am in contact with many, many sick people) had a substantial breakthrough.
While meditation, relaxation, biofeedback, etc. have a role in calming the autonomic nervous system, the question is how these programs are advertised and sold. If they advertised that the program MIGHT help people cope and feel better and were cheap/ low-cost, that might be reasonable. However, my impression has been some are sold with amazing stories of recovery and getting well substantially and thus, people hold higher expectations of the treatment and of themselves.
Thus, they feel like they’ve failed or there is something wrong with themselves when the problem is the treatment and general lack of good treatments. Then – as you’ve noted – there is the damage done by the public doubting the mechanisms of ME/CFS and wondering, “Hmmm, maybe Sandra just doesn’t want to get well.” “Maybe Doug is just not trying hard enough.”
It’s especially bad when people throw substantial $$$ they really can’t afford into dubious/ ineffective/ even dangerous treatments. When I first became sick, the older people in my support group warned against this. They had seen it happen and had it happen to them over and over again. Be sure you understand/ think about costs and possible negative effects. The latter are often overlooked when people are excited about a treatment.
A couple things I’ve learned from observation and my education/ training/ life:
a) Anecdotes on the web may be from people who have been paid or given other incentives to post positive results. Even the owner of a “third-party” website can be incentivized to post something positive. Always check out who is funding the website. Some owners will declare this openly. These days, bots are also out in full force. If someone you personally know and trust says something, then their report might be more trustworthy.
b) Anecdotes anywhere are super-selective. For example, see deaths from the COVID-19 vaccine. Although these are extremely rare, people tend to report and pay attention to the rare, giving it more weight than the common. Our brains are wired this way to protect us but it can also harm us by overestimating positive/ negative events. People who’ve tried a treatment and don’t experience any effect or suffer from it are less likely to report about it publicly and voluntarily. They don’t want to take away hope from others. This is why well-designed studies are needed: everyone – whether they get better or not – are tracked in some way.
c) Even if someone gets better, it doesn’t mean the treatment they think caused their treatment is the one that helped them. Again, a trick of the brain. Humans want to make sense of everything and so we see connections everywhere. It’s a common error to conclude what you did right before is the direct effect or had any effect on the consequence. It might be that a combination of things helped someone get better OR that the treatment they started taking 3 months ago (and not the one they just started) is beginning to work OR that simply time and luck made them better.
For the latter, people like to feel they have agency – that what they did or what someone gave them — was the reason for improvement. (Sometimes people might even believe that they were smarter, tried harder, were more positive, etc. than other people who remain sick.) They don’t want to accept that perhaps it was something out of their control – genetics, luck, time, etc. – which was the factor.
If you get better, you get better and that’s what counts – regardless of the mechanism – right? Sure, if you’re the individual getting better but if you’re the person evaluating whether to try something, think about the above.
Again, this is why studies are needed: there is usually a group of people who don’t get the treatment and are also followed to see how they do.
d) Little-known is the best snake oil salespeople always insert some truth into what they sell. Otherwise, if everything they said was deemed ludicrous by the great majority (i.e. “Chant this song and aliens will come down from the plant ZZGOVY to grant you eternal health and life.”), most people would immediately stop reading or listening to them. Thus, they often cloak what they say in the language or ideas of science. They will cite enough science to convince the public but an expert reading it would spot errors. Of course, most of the public aren’t experts so that’s the really tricky part.
There is some good research out there on ways to calm/ modify the autonomic nervous system but a lot of it is still early phase or in development. Most don’t make large claims.
(And if you have FM and haven’t tried it, look up low dose naltrexone. Relatively low cost with minimal side effects. A treatment with actual research backing it.)
Anecdotal reports are about the least representative forms of evidence which is why we have studies – like this one – which was what the blog was about. This study could have returned negative results. It was small, for sure, and Ashok Gupta now wants bigger, more definitive, and there presumably more rigorous studies.
I can see where you’re coming from wabi-sabi and I thought the same until I experienced significant changes myself – by calming my sympathetic nervous system response. I continue to try and focus in this area, which is difficult because I’m on my own with a teenager and no real understanding or support around me.
From my own experience I am doing more than making myself feel better. I seem to be in daily direct contact with my autonomic nervous system, which has been extremely unnerving because I really don’t think I should be. However, considering there are no other options available to me, I’ve had to sort myself out, as best as I can.
So I think I look at these brain retraining techniques sort of from the inside and I can see how they relate to me. Putting things into practice is another matter and challenging too -because like many people, I don’t have enough support and resources and have to make do with what I have. So that’s my current focus – how to try and improve further within my current life – maybe little bit by little bit…
I’ve had CFS/ME for over 20 years.
I found Gupta to be a powerful COPE but NOT a cure.
That said, daily Valtrex (and the right dose) has probably been the biggest game changer for me…again not a total cure…but has completely removed my months long flares, the syncope and the debilitating fatigue. Beta blockers have helped tremendously with the POTS. IV therapy helped a lot with terrible flares, as did acupuncture. AGAIN, Gupta helped calm me down, keep me positive, but most of all, introduced me to hope again and instilled a quiet, grounding and consistent fight in me. All invaluable tools when dealing with 20+ years of chronic illness.
I’m forever grateful for his program.
This is how I see his program working…Thanks DTJ.
Thanks for this helpful comment. 31 years sick here, and I recognize my nervous system needs to be called. This is what I’m hoping to get out of it, and your comment is very encouraging.
If you read Joe Dizpensas work about the Placebo effect and how to self heal you see that is not so different from Guptas work. Dizpensas program is for all diseases, and on his forums people heal with all kinds of diseases. I did Gupta in 2017 and got better but then I got a dip and just stoped because I couldn’t believe in his hypothesis. But then when I started to read about the polyvagal theory, the vagusnerv, HRV, the Cell danger response and then finally Dizpensas work I just felt, this is it. The ANS is managing the sickness response and inflammation in the body. The brain can create the sickness response and close down systems in the body that is not essential for surviving. After a while you can get other problems as well but that is because the body is not in homeostasis. Inflammation is building up, the hormonal system is of, the metabolism is bad and so on..
Dizpensa talks about epigenetics and how we can switch of and on genes with our mind. Thoughts becomes feelings and feelings change the chemistry in the body. He talks about how we must create a new healthy self, a self that has no decease. You do this with visualizations, meditations and mindset. He say that the body knows what kind of chemicals it needs, you just have to help it.
So maybe all of this is the placebo effect? The bodies own way of healing. But especially tailored for ME? I don’t know, but I tried all last year with just meditations and breathing techniques, vagusnerv machine and everything else that is supposed to be good for the ANS/vagusnerv. I saw some improvements but then it stopped. I thought this study was so interesting since they were comparing relaxation techniques with the Gupta program. Now I am doing the Gupta program again, about 6 weeks in now, and I have a very good progress. I really believe in this now and I am going all in!
I had ME/CFS since 2008, I ended up in a wheelchair for years and then completely bedbound with fulltime care by the time I found the gupta program in 2018. By which point I was 5% on the ability scale, I had Fibro from 2010, PoTs and OH from 2016 and was diagnosed with FND in 2018. I had many downstream symptoms on top of these.
I made a full recovery, name any symtom I had it. The Gupta Program just made sense to me, NLP techniques to rewire the way my body was responding gave me full health. Reading some of the comments here, I hear myself until the day I tried the program, I didn’t actually believe it would help when I started, I just wanted to regain enough health to hug my children and watch a movie with them.
I gained so much more then that, I work again, and I have a full life which I enjoy my children every day. Ashok has an easy to understand program, which step by step teaches you to change the way the body responds. I can exercise without PEM again, I have no pain and no symptome. I rarely get unwell anymore and it’s also helped with my ADHD and Migraines too!
I think if you try it, give it 100% , do it fully as Ashok recommends for 6 months and by that point you will continue simply because it is making a difference in your life.
What a shame the researchers used patient surveys to evaluate the results of their interventions when they could have used biofeedback and had documented proof ….data, measurable data.
I tried the Gupta program many years ago. I gave it my all. I did feel like I got some better for a while. I had a flare. I just found the program was mentally exhausting. I hate hearing about this program, because I feel like such a failure. To me, it was very difficult to do. I blame myself. I’m glad to hear of others successes, but I don’t understand why I am not better and I have deep regret for all I have lost
Hi Janet – please consider the Gupta program like any other treatment. We know there will be a wide variety of responses to anything. Some people will do well – others will not. This is also true within the neuroplasticity/mindfulness field. There are many different types of practices. Different ones resonate with different people.
If you tried it and found it mentally exhausting it sounds like you gave it a good shot. What else can one do?
Thank you so much for your kind reply. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and will keep this in mind. I guess many of us are experiencing the same difficulties.
Yes, indeed. Unfortunately I had much the same experience as you. I am going to try the new version as it jives with some other things that I’ve found helpful. I don’t expect miracles but I do hope for some increased functioning. Even 10% would be a win. 🙂
Thank you so much for your kind reply. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and will keep this in mind. I guess many of us are experiencing the same difficulties. Although I wouldn’t wish this illness on anyone else, at least I know I’m not alone.
Janet, I’ve been mulling over what I think myself, over the last few days. I suppose I fundamentally believe that people with ME/CFS are all so different in so many ways.
Personally – I have a particular set of symptoms but I don’t have some of the symptoms many others do. Maybe the Gupta program, just wasn’t a fit for you?
I met a woman in the supermarket last week and we chatted. I thought I’d be honest about how I was etc., and I could see the pitch for the cranial sacral therapy (she’s training in) forming in her mind. So I got the lot and yes, it all sounded great but I know for me, it probably isn’t the whole answer. I could feel my blood starting to boil, as I saw her sizing me up – I thought – lucky I have a mask on and she can’t see how furious I am! And also I could see she genuinely meant well, so I didn’t want to be mean spirited.
Yes, it may help and make me feel better for a bit but I believe my issues are immune/irritable brain/energy etc., which are, I would agree, made much worse if my sympathetic nervous system is on high alert but also certain foods set off some sort of response that sets off my sns too.
I know it’s all interconnected but, for me, calming my sns is part of my focus and fairly central but I don’t think it answers all my issues. Oh Janet, we could go around and around, couldn’t we? I say bring on the good quality, reproducible research and then hopefully things will make a bit more sense.
It is good to see that there is beginning to be some academic scrutiny of these neuroplasticity programs which clearly seem to help many sufferers (sadly not mysel).
Interesting follow up studies to this would be to try and ascertain why some do well, (Gupta himself claims only around 66% per cent recover or have significant improvements) while others make minimal or no progress, and in the case of the more aggressive programs like the Lightning Process, may actually relapse badly. Are there any commonalities which could help us better understand the different subsets of these conditions?
I can drop my blood pressure by 20 points after 20 minutes meditation so is it that far fetched that we can affect other changes to our ANS with the right sort of mind body training? I know many of our more militant peers in the CFS community will strongly resist any suggestion of “psychologising” our illness but I do fell they may be missing at tool in the management of our illness. For what its worth I say Ashok maybe 15 years ago when he was a younger man. I didn’t have great improvements but I can say for sure he is not a charlatan or on a get rich quick scheme. I recall he was ill himself as a young man and these were tools and treatments he developed himself.
If you really want your mind blown on the complexity of the mind body connections then google pavlovian conditioning of the immune system.
A program that is very similar to the Gupta program (and DNRS, ANS Rewire, etc) that has recently been released, is the ‘Curable’ app. It is targeted specifically for people with pain. I’ve found that the techniques can be applied more widely.
Although the techniques are very similar, I have found it useful just to have a bit of a different angle supplied. And I must say that it is also reassuring that researchers have converged upon very similar techniques, quite independently.