When you have a systemic disease, any part of your body can provide a clue – even your nose. Over 15 years from 1998 to 2012, James Baraniuk, a longtime ME/CFS and GWI researcher at Georgetown University, became the first and thus far the last person to try and understand people with fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) through their nose.
Baraniuk, an MD with dozens of nasal studies to his name, found that sinus pain and non-allergenic rhinitis affected a high percentage of people – about 50% – with ME/CFS. In fact, the mid-facial regions of people with ME/CFS were more painful than people with documented physical abnormalities such as allergic rhinitis or rhinosinusitis.
Many people probably mistake the symptoms of mid-facial pain (nasal pressure, heaviness, tightness, nasal blockage) for tension-type headaches. The pain is generally symmetrical, affects both sides of the face and usually has no clear exacerbating factors. Analgesics, antibiotics, and intranasal steroids are usually ineffective.
Baraniuk, however, was unable to find any evidence or swelling or blockages in the noses of ME/CFS patients that could explain their feelings of pain, heaviness and congestion.
Nor in a large study was he able to find any of increased inflammation (total protein, NGF, TNF-a, IL-8) or increased IgE levels. His inability to trigger symptoms by shoving histamine and bradykinin up his patients noses suggested that mast cell activation wasn’t to blame either. While he acknowledged that localized activation of mast cells or (entopy) could possibly contribute to the facial pain in ME/CFS and FM, Baraniuk concluded that a true allergic rhinitis was not present either and that “TH2-lymphocyte and IgE-mast cell mechanisms are unlikely causes of CFS”. In short, he could find no indication that inflammation played any role in the facial pain commonly experienced in ME/CFS or FM.
Idiopathic Nonallergic Rhinitis (iNAR)
Baraniuk eventually concluded that most of his patients were suffering from something called idiopathic nonallergic rhinitis (iNAR); i.e. they had “phantom nasal congestion”. (Idiopathic means the researchers are stumped: the cause is unknown).
In a review of idiopathic allergic rhinitis (iNAR), Baraniuk proposed that four types of iNAR exist, one of which was associated with “the autonomic dysfunction as found in chronic fatigue syndrome and other functional disorders”.
Ultimately he asserted that peripheral and central sensitization, and nerve and autonomic nervous system issues were more likely the cause.
Phantom Nasal Congestion
Interestingly, given what researchers found much later, Baraniuk believed that defective type C neurons – the same kind of neurons that small fiber neuropathy studies indicate are damaged in fibromyalgia and POTS (and ME/CFS) patients – played a key role in the mid-facial pain. He proposed that the up-regulation of TRPV1 ion channels on these neurons might be producing an unrelenting stream of signals to the parts of the brain involved in processing pain.
As the brain centers become more and more bombarded with pain signals due to “peripheral sensitization”, they become more “efficient” at responding to them and the inhibitory pain pathways became inhibited. Activated glial cells in the nervous system quickly produce substances which produced further pain sensitization.
Eventually, even minimal sensory inputs from the nose became translated into sensations of pain, nasal heaviness and congestion – a congestion Baraniuk called “phantom nasal congestion” (given that he had trouble finding it) which he likened to phantom limb pain.
Dysautonomic Rhinitis
Noting that “dysautonomic rhinitis” was common, Baraniuk even suggested problems in the brain stem could be associated with autonomic nervous system dysfunction and dysregulation of a main processor of sensory information – the thalamus. Baraniuk cited a variety of findings (reduced heart rate variability, orthostatic intolerance and his own findings – impaired nasal vasoconstrictor responses to exercise, isometric exercise, noise, and other stimuli – to buttress assertion of ANS dysregulation.)
The heightened sensitivity of the trigeminal nerve – which contains the nonmyelinated C-fibers shown to be impaired in multiple chemical sensitivity – is an obvious extension of Baraniuk’s paradigm.
Baraniuk believed that the nonallergic rhinitis seen in ME/CFS and FM is similar to that seen in other “allied” “functional” disorders of autonomic dysfunction including migraines, Gulf War Illness, multiple chemical sensitivity, irritable bowel syndrome and interstitial cystitis.
Exercise, cold air, changes in barometric pressure, cold air, the passing of weather fronts, cigarette smoke, alcohol, stressful situations, foods, strong perfumes and other chemical odors are all potentially potent triggers.
One study suggested that topical nasal capsaicin may be helpful may be helpful for those with phantom nasal congestion. Analgesics, antibiotics, and intranasal steroids are ineffective.
In the end, Baraniuk’s extensive investigations into the noses of people with ME/CFS over a decade ago seems prescient. It provided a window into ME/CFS which proposed that peripiheral sensitization, dysautonomia, small nerve fiber neuropathy and neuroinflammation – all subjects which have received more prominence recently – were playing important roles in the disease. On the other hand, Baraniuk found no evidence that inflammation or mast cell activation – two major topics in ME/CFS – had an effect.
Oh, my goodness, this must be what I have!! I recently saw my sinus surgeon because my nose felt congested and I was worried about how I would get through an upcoming abdominal surgery. He checked my nose several different ways and said it was completely open and clear. And yet I felt like it was completely blocked. He couldn’t understand how I could feel that way; I think this article offers the explanation. I happen to use a nasal capsaicin spray which I find [somewhat] effective. As per the article, corticosteroid sprays don’t help at all.
I was part of one of Baraniuk’s nasal studies and I felt similar. Nose felt congested but he found it wasn’t. Trying to trigger symptoms using mast cell activators did nothing. He was very interested in autonomic nervous system issues and it looks like it panned out.
Cort, just curious, have you tried capsaicin as one study you mentioned has suggested it?
I haven’t. I have phantom nasal congestion and heaviness and pain in the mid-facial region – I fit that to a T but I just learned about capsaicin. I hope to try it and see if it relieves the head pain and pressure I often feel.
My blockage is relieved for a good few hours by a mastcell stabiliser, Quercetine. I have no true allergies.
Idiopathic rhinitis was a big issue for me early in my ME/CFS days. Mainly because it caused sinus infections, which were an issue unto themselves. My belief is that those sinus infections were just due to my anatomical predisposition (small plumbing in the head) and are not reflective of any typical ME/CFS symptom. Predictably, when I saw an ENT, sinus surgery was tabled, fitting the hammer/nail model. My GP was against it, which stopped me from pursuing that route, very thankfully.
Down the path, the immunologist/allergist I ended up seeing is closely associated with the Griffith University NCNED and the research going on there (an amazing physician). This is when I was diagnosed with ME/CFS. I had already discovered (by coincidence) that Telfast relieved my sinus blockages, and subsequent infections. My immunologist/allergist then put me on Ketotifen (antihistamine and mast cell stabiliser) for ME/CFS. This significantly reduced my rhinitis (certainly to below the level that causes sinus infections) and assisted with other symptoms. At the same time, I was being managed for food allergies (through a dietician following the RPAH elimination diet). The diet made a significant difference to the rhinitis as well.
Eventually I pursued FMT, having discovered I had massive microbiome dysbiosis based following testing similar to the American Gut project. I pursued FMT through the CDD in Sydney, unsuccessfully, as they now have a restricted number of diseases for which they provide FMT. I ended up doing it myself (to see if it would have any benefits) and then further FMT via a gastroenterologist in Melbourne (colonoscopy). All of this FMT investigation was based on Prof Borody’s research indicating the ME/CFS benefits. There was a recent study that came out also supporting the FMT approach. I believe donor selection is incredibly important in this process. The best results (by far) were achieved when I went for a seriously athletic, clean living, same age, same gender, non-relative. The donors were all screened following the strict protocols that are required (as per the recently published FMT and ME/CFS article). I think you’d be crazy to take any risk on that side of things. In my experience, antibiotic treatment before FMT made no difference.
The reason for mentioning all this is that post FMT, the rhinitis is remarkably reduced (>90%*) from what it used to be. As are many of the GI symptoms (food allergies are also reduced by >80%*). I still get the 0230 in the morning “rebound hyperglycaemia” type symptoms that ruin sleep, though not as badly as pre FMT. FMT certainly hasn’t fixed my ME/CFS – I would probably be described as having transitioned from mild to moderate over the last couple of years. I’ve had ME/CFS for almost 7 years – post viral sudden onset. In my experience, post FMT, PEM gets better for a while, but then “wears off’”. FMT seems to have zero improvement for brain fog/cognitive performane and a limited impact on polyarthritis. However, FMT has certainly given me relief from the worst effects of some ME/CFS symptoms. Overall, FMT has definitely produced better results than any drug (including Ketotifen) I have tried. I now don’t take any form of medication.
*Hand waving metric of anecdotally inferred improvement.
There is a medication for non allergic rhinitis. Olapatadine nasal spray. It’s very effective but poorly accessible .
I had an infection in my nose and in the sinuses in 1993, when I was pregnant. I had this pneumococcus infection for 2,5 years, with the congested feeling and a massive pain. No amount of any kind of antibiotics made any difference. Finally, they tested what bacteria it was, and I got an antibiotic that helped a little. But the pain never healed. Still today I have this “congestion” 26 years later, pain in my sinuses and in my face. I wonder if it could be some kind of biofilm developed inside the sinuses. I’ve read a little about biofilms, and they are really nasty things. They are bacterias that merges together with the mucus, so that they become one. To rinse your nose is of no help, with netipots and salt water. Antibiotics can’t kill them, it’s impossible to get rid of biofilms once they form in the mucus. I use heavily diluted (with virgin olive oil) oregano oil and put inside the nostrils. Oregano oil is an analgetic and kills bacteria, viruses, parasites and mold. It’s very potent and burns if not enough diluted. But I have to do it every day to treat the pain. As soon as I skip one day the pain gets worse. I never knew this could have something to do with ME/CFS, but now it makes sense. The initial infection was the starting point of my ME.
Use to have chronic sinus infections for several years where there was so much congestion, extreme fatigue and pressure of sinus area. All symptoms stopped after being diagnosed with sleep apnea and regularly using a c-pap machine.
I can never understand why trigger points are so often ignored. The lateral pterygoid is well known to cause these symptoms and of course made worse by central sensitisation. Regular massage therapy to facial and neck muscles and treating the perpetuating factors can keep these symptoms under control as I have found from my own experience. The triggers mentioned are all perpetuating factors for trigger points. I used to have severe sinus infections when I was much younger and before I learnt about trigger points.
Tricia: can you explain a bit more about the lateral pterygoid and massage therapy? I would love to find an effective treatment!! In my case, the feeling of nasal congestion leads to a feeling of not being able to breathe fully in my chest, which drives me crazy!!
Carla, I recommend you buy the book The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook by Clair and Amber Davies which is pretty easy to understand or for a more comprehensive look, Healing Through Trigger Point Therapy: a Guide for Fibromyalgia and Myofascial Pain Dysfunction. Good luck with it. It would help to massage your chest muscles as well, especially serratus and ones between the ribs.
Carla, I forgot to mention that the second book is written by Devin Starlanyl and John Sharkey.
Maybe trigger point work is effective for some, but what I experince is definitly not trigger point related.For me, it sounds like it is more related to the theories in the article such as small fiber neuropathy etc. I am a licensed, practicing massage therapist and have experienced much inter-oral trigger point therapy work with absolutley no relief. Glad it worked for you! Wish it were that simple for others
Crystal, I’m sorry it hasn’t worked for you. Trigger points can be very complicated and hard to find, especially as all muscles are connected in kinetic chains and the source of the problem could be further away. I actually believe that the small nerve fibre neuropathy is caused by trigger points as they will spread to the tissues and even the skin, disrupting the circulation and pressing on nerves.
I would suggest to all dealing with sinus pressure/pain and or/jaw issues, to have a legitimate consult with a Biological Dentist. An under-developed jaw can and will cause symptoms in relation to Fibromyalgia. The DNA Appliance is a game-changer, but it takes some patience and time. Every individual is different.
Cort – You mention you were part of one of his nasal studies. Just curious: when you felt congested but he found that you weren’t, did you also have changes to your nasal mucus production? I’m trying to understand if this might be what my own problem is…
I have had problems with sinus infections since I was a kid. As an adult, post-fibromyalgia developing, it feels way more frequent. I rarely bother going to the doctor now over my sinus infections, simply because I do get better after antibiotics but then, within maybe a month, I’ve got sinus trouble again. The article doesn’t mention mucus production, so I’m not sure if someone blowing lots of gunk from their nose could feel congested but not be. I guess I think of congestion as meaning the sinuses are fuller of fluid than normal, not just if there’s inflammation present making it more difficult to clear the sinuses.
(Hopefully that makes sense…)
Mine are not full of fluid they feel heavy and full but I can usually breath fine through them. The area of my face around my nose is very tender.
Thank you for suggesting the book “Trigger Point Therapy Workbook.” I ordered a copy today. I’m especially interested in this therapy for rib cage pain which is my worst symptom after fatigue. I also have facial pain especially in my teeth, but don’t have the “phantom” pain described in this article. Thanks again!
I have been diagnosed with ME/CFS for over 20 years, and just wanted to mention that my ribcage pain finally went away with a ketovore diet. My gums healed also, but not sure this was the diet, as I am also on lyme herbs. Uva ursi keeps interstitial cystitis under control, but strangely enough I have huge amounts of drainage at the back of my throat still, and the sinus pain remains just like described above.
I have me/cfs fm and css central sensitivity syn
I just found the link to seasonal allergies aspect I gained it in march the last time I got sick lung infection… put me in the hospital with exasperation of lots of my systems
Cfs and Me have a direct link between the amount of enery used and how fast to how sore and exhausted and how long the post execerional malaise lasts and how bad it is
Fm is all my joints and glands and muscles stifness after use and before use haha… Hot water for me is key it calms the inflammation shower in the morning and hot bath at night to shut my body off that being said don’t get to hot It mimics sun stroke bad news…
Css sets my nerves on fire literally burning pain from nothing… sound lights viberating things sudden movments all will trigger fight or flight which my body is in constantly sweats raids heart rate blood pressure and enought adrenaline and testosterone to kill a horse lmao
The only thing that I have found to reduce this affect is deep meditation or getting some one esle to rub my sympathetic nervous system very slowly very softly from the shoulder blades to the bottom of the rib cage just the weight of a hand can feel like its crushing you. If you don’t have these delightful things you couldn’t possibly understand the struggles of daily life just try to be understanding and kind if you see some one going thru this you don’t how much they allready beat them selves up. If you have them and any of this helps you through every thing just remember
IT’S OK NOT TO BE OK ?
Finally somewhat of a lead on this “new-ish” (around two years) , extremely horrible symptom that I have been experiencing! The feeling is this extreme teeth, gum, mouth pain that I mostly experience at night. It keeps me awake. Their also seems to be an overexertion connection as well. No dentist has found a dental cause. I have definitly felt that it was possibly ” nerve” related, perhaps trigeminal. It is so very perplexing and I don’t beleive I have ever heard anyone else with ME, or anyone period ,for that matter share it as a symptom for them. Right now I honestly might have to rate it as my most debilitating symptom. It disrupts my already fragile sleep and is the most intense pain I feel overall… no definitive answer with this article, but at least I dont feel totally crazy and alone anymore!
Crystal, you’ve probably had work done on the masseters (chewing muscles) which are the main culprits for teeth pain and are best worked inside the mouth but have you looked at the temporalis (scalp muscles) and sternocleidimastoids (neck muscles) which can cause tension in the masseters? We lie on all of these muscles every night so helpful to make sure your pillow is not contributing to the problem.
Crystal, thank you for stating some of your dental problems. I have had fibromyalgia for many years, and severe migraines also. 9 years ago I had some extensive dental work done, and on one particular side, I really never felt better. Fast forward to a year and a half ago and I am having constant facial pain and tooth pain. Hard to chew meat, brush teeth, sleep. I go to a dentist last Tuesday finally and he sends me to an oral surgeon who suspects Trigeminal
Neuralgia. This is on the right side, and I am stumped. Could this all be related… tooth, neck, migraines, fibro, ?
Yes! I had the same experience the oral surgeon Gave me a muscle relaxer and at first it was a miracle. I slept like a baby. But then I started reacting badly to the drug, and he just said to go off of it. But in the meantime, he had given me exercises to do moving my job to the left center right Center and lower jaw up over my top teeth with my head tilted back. Now I do those exercises while I’m doing 15 to 20 minutes of yoga and it makes such a huge difference, however, I still have pressure behind my sinuses that comes along with the intense headaches every single day and the inability through my nose. Today I randomly took a fisherman‘s friend cough drop, and felt my nasal cavities open up! It was such an amazing relief! I was in a medical study for ME where they gave us N- acetyl cysteine, 900 mg/day. And I also had heard the woman head of the Dysautonomia Center in Upstate NY say to take Theanine. Those two things keep my energy up and keep me upright for longer. Valacyclovir keeps my seizures, mostly at bay and the headaches and pressure behind my eye tolerable along with Tylenol Arthritis and hydroxychloroquine.
Hi Crystal,
I’ve had so many new things pop up over the years of the weird kind! However now I’m feeling much better and can remain ‘vertical’, as Dr Bateman says, for hours, I feel a bit of a fraud and think I must be exaggerating my symptoms!
I am my best and worst helper in all of this – I have to get over the notion that RESTING is a complete-waste-of-time!
Please realise you are not crazy and not alone ? I should be writing this to myself actually…
Crystal you are not alone, I have been diagnosed with Trigeminal Neuralgia, and I too get terrible pain around the roof of my mouth, behind my nose, and down my throat and yes it is worse when I lie down at night too. If I eat any dairy it also makes my teeth and gums throb and pulsate. I have pain running from the side of the head to the ears and down my jaw and down my neck with a slight loss of sensation in one half of my face. And yes like you, this area is also the first to respond to over exertion, and I use it as a signal from my body to stop. It is so good to know that I am not the only one – thank you. Occasionally I get a crawling sensation over my face and a feeling of what I can only describe as lightening flashes down my face. When it is very cold, my ears get very painful and feel like they are turning inside out. I also have very extreme hyperacusis. I get the most relief from doing guided meditations, particularly to get to sleep.
The pain is like very intense pressure. I also get a vinegary smell in my nose.
I can second the sharp vinegary smell in the nose, the weird crawling sensations in face and the hyperacusis.
I don’t get the pain on the roof of my mouth, or lightning flashes down the face but do get weird sort of cold or electric sensations starting in the flesh above my upper lip and radiating out into the blue triangles in the above diagram.
Also lots of head pain and of course the “nasal congestion” that is not congestion.
Richard thank you, I can’t tell you how good it feels to know that I am not the only one! My lightening flashes sound similar to your electric sensations, mine radiate from my eyes down my cheeks, it is not painful, and actually feels nice, but just very disarmingly weird! And someone else with the vinegary smell in the nose too – hurray!
Hi Sarah,
I had never heard the word Hyperacusis before and didn’t know what it meant.
For others who don’t know either; it’s when everyday sounds seem much louder than they should.
I could hear the sounds of the heating/cooling or whatever coming from a shopping centre building itself. It was too overwhelming for my brain and I had to leave.
Thanks so much for that. Once more a peculiar experience has a ‘real’ and not ‘imagined’ source.
This revelation got me thinking. I would find talking about these issues to a trained professional very useful.
It’s pitiful that the medical profession is often unable/unavailable to fulfil this role at present, due to prejudice and misinformation.
Tracey Anne. Thanks for describing Hyperacusis – I didn’t know what that was and I have it! I sometimes hear things louder than they are – toilet flush, shower etc, or think noises are inside when they’re outside. My directional hearing is off too. Then there’s times when I can’t hear properly – the TV, my partner (he gets peed off with repeating things for me!) I did get a referral to ENT after a hearing test proved my actual hearing is pretty good, but perhaps my brain interprets it differently. I never got the appointment as when Covid hit they asked if it was urgent and I said No.
It’s like most of my symptoms I expect – ‘it’s consistent with and related to your CFS/ME’
Hi Sandra,
Thankfully my hearing is fairly normal now. In my case I think some of my issues were/are related to my brain becoming irritated & the immune system becomes triggered. I found Jarred Younger PhD’s work seemingly relevant to what’s going on in my brain.
Anyway, best wishes to you 🙂
Sarah, did a Neurologist diagnose you? What was that process like? I am in the very very beginning stages
Biological dentist…it cannot hurt. Do you have any amalgams inside your mouth?
How did the come to the conclusion that you indeed have Trigeminal Neuralgia? Through a NCV or just describing your symptoms?
Please have a Cone-Beam CT Scan from a qualified dentist to see the shape/structure of your cranium and the symmetry of your jaw-joints. This is extremely important to determine if the DNA Appliance would be of any benefit.
Best,
Dan
Oh wow! I haven’t come across anyone else with this. The roof of my mouth and teeth pulsate really often. It drives me mad. At first I thought it was a severe allergic reaction? I’ve seen a few doctors but they aren’t sure what is causing it.
It gets worse if I exercise or eat hot/cold foods.
I’ve had a facial MRI and my sinuses are clear. My allergy test came up negative to all tested allergens.
I would love to know what it is!
I experience lots of “inflammation” (swelling of tissues) including lips, palette, tongue, sinus. A clothes pin feeling appears daily when I cycle thru symptoms and am more run down. My nose is not blocked but feels pinched closed. Exacerbates when lying down.
This was a major complaint for YEARS. The dentist saw it and said it looked like an allergic reaction. Its like angiodema.
Then there is the sore throat..nearby.
I think I have this I have had every test done nothing eases the pain my nose and air way are clear but I suffer 24/7 constant pain and h earaches the pain radiating from behind the bridge of my nose causing severe upper jaw pain no tests have revealed anything I just wish there was some relief to all this
Hello Crystal, I have chronic trigeminal neuralgia since the age of 6. It ruined so many years of my life as well.
Crystal, I get those same symptoms; extreme pain in all teeth, gums and inside cheeks. It lasts for a few days and then goes away. My dentist can’t find a cause. I’ve had CFIDS/ME for 15 years, this strange symptom started a year or so after I hit menopause, maybe just a coincidence, don’t know. My doctor says it may be EBV.
Is it ‘burning’?
Could it be BMS, Burning Mouth Syndrome?
I’ve had that for 9+ years.
Or..TMJ?
Wishing you good luck in getting to the bottom of those symptoms – and feeling BETTER!
Crystal,
I suggest going to see a Biological Dentist to see if you would be a candidate for the DNA Appliance, and also to rule out Cavitations (Are very common however, especially if your wisdom teeth were removed). If your sleep is already an issue, the DNA appliance could be a potential Game-changer for you.
Are you a member on the forum?
Best,
Dan
I have the same thing! It comes and goes. So strange when your whole mouths hurts and then it just stops?♀️
Crystal.
After eating I often get a central chest pain which radiates up into my jaw and teeth. I’ve always assumed it’s an indigestion thing, but maybe it’s CFS related! (it’s not a cardiac issue)
I remember reading something about chest pain being a CFS symptom, as well as temporal-mandibular (jaw joint) problems (forgive me if I’ve spelt or named that wrong!)
It seems every symptom I have is CFS related!
I get a distinct and consistent feeling of swelling in my sinuses whenever my other symptoms of chronic fatigue are about to begin. All my other symptoms follow–heat, aches, and extreme fatigue. It sure feels like my sinuses are swollen, but no infection or sinus congestion has ever been found. It last a few hours to several days, then simply goes away.
What a weird topic! I have a type of idiopathic rhinitis (very drippy) which is triggered mostly by weather (not allergens) and eating spicy food. I also have what I always though were sinus headaches. Having Ehlers-Danlos, I know I have some kind of dysautonomia (likely POTS) and so this new idea could explain my symptoms. Also about 50% of EDSers have small fiber neuropathy although me, not so much.
Speaking of how to clear ones sinuses, I had an experience with cranial sacral therapy where the practitioner moved my skull plates around. She put her hands inside my mouth to do some of this. Call it strange, but afterward it felt like there was a breeze inside my head–so clear and clean and no sinus problems what so ever.
Unfortunately it didn’t last, but it is something to potentially consider!
I agree that this has become my most aggravating symptom Crystal. A sinus specialist found absolutely no congestion. Carla, where can I get capsaicin spray?
The brand I use is a Canadian product called Nasol. I get it from a health food store, but it’s also available at this Amazon.ca link:
https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=nasol+sinus+spray&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3JXtBRC8ARIsAEBHg4m1lzhuQealJMyOzf2YLRxvu9vNL-Dh3xrcDn039QLLVcAf4tqhoHwaAtKlEALw_wcB&hvadid=284177540550&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001519&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=4261751579318468328&hvtargid=aud-749227636300%3Akwd-576645333268&hydadcr=20655_10080640&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_9liocyy1xq_b
The great thing about it is that you can use it up to 12 times per day.
When looking up IDO2 the first word is Tryptophan. IDO2 job is to prevent excess tryptophan/serotonin. With high tryptophan/serotonin one gets:
Depression
Apathy
Passivity
Loss of motivation
Nasal stuffiness or congestion
Allergic-type symptoms and allergies
Cold or flu-like symptoms
Acne and other skin disorders
Insomnia and other sleep problems
Impaired intellectual functioning
Difficulty concentrating and learning
Poor memory; amnesia
Difficulty making decisions and acting on them
Difficulty making plans and implementing them
Procrastination
Muddled thinking; brain fog
Lack of desire or interest
Emotional flatness or dullness
Sexual dysfunction
Hearing loss or noises in the ears
Altered sense of smell; strange smell in nose
IDO2 is also connected to the Kyrenine pathway and connected there. May be a breakdown in the function of that pathway.
My sinus issues are from MARCONS. I don’t have a stuffy nose, congestion and I don’t feel my mast cell is connected to this. But I do have facial pressure. MARCONS is antibiotic resistant staph. They can easily check this with a nasal swap. It’s hard to get rid of and can affect a lot of things in the body.
As for trigger therapy, I didn’t find that helpful either. I had a full series of Rolfing. Very hard to endure as a person with Ehlers Danlos. But, we will nearly try anything to help pains, won’t we? Of course having EDS, things don’t stay in line for very long.
Issie
This list of symptoms actually sounds like low serotonin rather than high. I take tryptophan to relieve them.
I was thinking that. So tryptophan helps I assume? I’ve been meaning to buy some and try it.
I am so grateful for this information. I, too, always know when I’m about to have a very tough patch as the pain at the top of my ‘nose’ gets really bad. No doctor has been able to understand or interpret this. I have seen an ENT with no finding and have tried antibiotics and other sinus treatments unsuccessfully. I had to stop mowing the lawn because it was a trigger as are other environmental smells and weather patterns. I have never been able to find information about this symptom. I was certain that it played a role, especially as it seemed to be the start of a bad patch. Most recently I took parasitic medication and ended up with the most severe and debilitating ‘trigeminal neuralgia’ on the three left nerve stems. The pain was like being cut deep on the face and alcohol being poured in, but the pain did not subside. It was there day and night for several weeks and nothing I took would take away the pain. It led me to believe that parasites were a big part of my problem. I am still not sure. I would love any more information or suggestions as to what related treatment has been used.
This post is so interesting. Amongst my numerous symptoms with ME/CFS/fibro, facial discomfort/ pain has been with me for many years now. I am most aware of it when I lie down especially at night. Is in the central part of face, with tightness, pressure, pain along the sinus path and upper teeth and a nasty crawling feeling. l‘ve never felt confident that it would be worthwhile sharing this with a doctor so have never mentioned it. Self massage seems to relieve it somewhat. I usually say plaintively “ my face hurts” to my husband who probably thinks “ oh whatever else is wrong with her”. I must say that I do get bad attacks of allergic rhinitis periodically as I live in a very grassy place but with the above everything is completely uncongested and dry and I breathe easily.
“I am most aware of it when I lie down especially at night.”
I do have a light case of hay fever and take a corticoid spray for it. But there is something about the night an laying down here too:
At night, my nose is dry and typically one nostril is blocked. It’s near always the same one. I have a harder time breathing well.
When I get up, the nose starts unblocking partly or completely. A few days ago the one blocked nostril started unblocking within !half! a minute after siting upright on my bed! Then further in the morning my nose start becoming more runny.
=> Is the nose affected too by Orthostatic Intolerance?
Note that the problem came back after years of being gone since my health began to slowly improve again… …with improved blood volumes and flow judging my skin color and “being able” to bleed again when I have a superficial injury.
Hi dejurgen,
I have found that as I improve, some symptoms go but some new ones appear.
I feel a bit like Peach Blossom’s husband – What’s happening now?!
My more recent symptoms – last few years – (as well as the nasal passages) are with my eyes. Actually with my sight -as in difficulty changing focus, blurry vision and my left eye seemingly swelling up and making the eyelid seem too tight and with swelling around my eyes – periorbital edema?This is brought on by eating sugar/carbs.
I have also had tremendous problems in the past with my throat swelling up and in particular a sort of curtain coming down at the back of my throat, so if I lie on my back it blocks my throat. This was caused by eating oils, like olive oil.
Have been to ENT – nothing. Had camera up my nose and down my throat, gastroscopy, xrays, scans, guided fine needle biopsy – (thyroid nodules) – not finding anything.
There is such a paradox between my own inner experience of herculean efforts to even reach a level of normality that many people take for granted and others perception of me as someone who maybe just needs to buck up a bit and put more effort in…
People just do not understand.
The more weird the symptom the worse the reaction is from others. Like being caught in a web – the more struggling to explain I do, the more trapped I am.
I think we have to keep in mind that this is one study and not all studies believe that mast cell isn’t involved. When there is hayfever, there is a mast cell response. Here is one study saying this.
Secretory activity of nasal mucosal mast cells and histamine release in hay fever. – PubMed – NCBI
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2466003/
There are also other potential causes, like MARCONS for example.
Baraniuk did agree that a localized mast cell activation could be in play but came down on other causes. As opposed to hay fever studies these studies were specifically done in ME/CFS and FM (there were three or four of them) and they’re the only one’s to assess the mid-facial region and Baraniuk has done dozens of studies in this area.
Just a thought – my asthma is set off by mould, cold air, warm humid air, smoke, eating sugar, talc, paracetamol tablets and probably other things I can’t remember.
My son’s asthma us set off by cold air, warm humid air and exercise. If he’s exercising he takes his Ventolin reliever inhaler before exercise.
Tracey Anne that’s interesting you mention that oils makes the pain worse, as it also makes the inflammation / pressure / pain behind my nose and throat worse as well, I had moved to using avocado oil as olive oil seemed to make the pain worse. But have recently been suffering from mast cell / histamine issues, and avocados are high in histamines.
@Issie:
“not all studies believe that mast cell isn’t involved”
I have only looked at the paper in glance yet, but it seems that no elevated IgE markers are proof of no mast cell involvement. Yet I have a fairly clear case of hay fever and no increase in IgE and very likely frequent mast cell activations too. At least I have the symptoms of it.
@Tracey Anne:
“paracetamol”
Paracetamol depends on glutathion to make it active AND to make it not being very toxic. When having ME or FM, glutathione is expected to be too low. Amazing it is so often suggested as the first pain killer for FM :-(.
https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/content/paracetamol-depletes-glutathione
“As paracetamol is almost completely metabolised by the liver,[5] up to 96%,[3] it relies upon abundant levels of glutathione to perform this vital function. These adverse effects experienced as a result of ingesting paracetamol above therapeutic doses is due to how it is detoxified through the liver.”
“olive oil”
I start to suspect sunflower oil does cause me aphthous ulcers. I just need a few more observations to exclude other causes.
Sunflower seeds give me instant GI pain. Tylenol has been stated as being actually inexplicably healing to ME. Who knows. I find it very effective in the eight hour arthritis release form. But I’m going to do some research now because I had a special MRI that measured the chemical make up of my brain and showed a low level of glutathione in a medical study for ME.
@dejurgen, that’s the hard thing with MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome), unless markers are checked within one hour of a flare a lot of times things are not picked up with labs. And MCAS, isn’t a true allergy – it’s an over response. Different from Mastocytosis.
Hi Sarah,
The oils were a massive problem and also resulted in multiple mouth ulcers – like 5 or so on my tongue and it felt like they were going down my throat too.
Remarkably when I started to get more restorative/productive sleep I no longer had that problem with the olive oil – overnight! I stil can’t eat coconut oil but being able to eat olive oil is significant for me as I cannot tolerate most food.
I can also now eat sunflower oil and seeds.
Hi dejurgen,
I thought Sarah mentioned the ulcers but I see now it was you.
Yes, my liver seems to have trouble processing many things – dark chocolate, salt, fructose, medications.
I feel poisoned and nauseous and my heart rhythm goes all over the place. The chocolate makes my blood pressure soar.
Apart from when I was pregnant, my blood pressure has always been normal.
I had to go for a gynaecological procedure last November (2018), I had eaten some dark chocolate over two days, a couple of days before. When the nurse checked my blood pressure it was 168, when I realised that, it immediately went up to 198.
At home, previously, on my own blood pressure monitor my BP measured over 220 – I just thought the machine had gone wrong!
Anyway no chocolate now and my blood pressure has returned to normal.
The reason I got the BP machine was because I always felt my BP was too low – I was barely ticking over. When I began eating the chocolate I started to get more energy and my colour in my face returned. Maybe that was as a result of higher blood pressure. I know some people like Dan Neuffer had low blood pressure. Anyway it’s just something I haven’t been able to work out.
Chocolate is a big virus trigger for me and shingles/herpes/EBV etc are probably causes and flares. Chocolate gives me instant hot flashes and sweats the consistency of gelatin. Then my right side becomes inflamed and huge headache.
Yes, chocolate is an issue for me. It’s helped & hindered. I wonder whether that’s because it’s fermented. Or additives etc…
My nose is like that at night too – mostly one side blocked- it might swap over if I turn over.
It clears when I’m up and occasionally just pours out of my nose uncontrollably! How can it go from blocked to dripping out!
I’ve always assumed it’s the removal of some excess brain fluid – through a ‘plate’ in the skull with holes in it that drains into the sinuses (I read about it somewhere!) I also get continuous ‘stuff’ running down the back of my throat which can make it feel ‘closed’. I’ve recently had a couple of occasions where I’ve not been able to ‘activate’ my swallow reflex too (need to see my GP about that!)
Oh, the joys of CFS/ME!
Hi. This is my first post here, I´m swedish and was diagnosed with ME/cfs and fibromyalgia in 2014.
This article is very interesting. I´ve had pain in my sinuses since 1993. The problems started when I was pregnant and at that time I had a 2,5 year long infection in my nose and sinuses, which resulted in problems until today. It was a pneumococci-infection, treated with a number of different antibiotics.
This gave me facial pain all these years, an over sensitization. Cold air is a huge problem, sometimes gives me migraines, and I have an intense pain on a daily basis, a quite debilitating pain. I always thought it´s an infection in the sinuses, and had a lot of antibiotics, which didn´t fix it.
Then someone suggested it could be biofilm, a layer of bacteria that forms inside the mucosa in the sinuses. It is untreatable with antibiotics, because this layer becomes as a part of the mucosa. This person then suggested me to treat it with oil of oregano. I diluted it heavily with cold pressed olive oil before I used it, because the oregano oil is very potent and strong.
I put the oil inside the nostrils twice or three times daily. It is an analgetic, so it helps with the pain effectively, and hopefully, over time, with the biofilm. As soon as I skip using oregano oil, the pain worsens. Look in to oregao oil. It´s antiinflammatory, anticancer, an analgetic, antibacteria, antivirus and antifungus. The research on oregano oil is very interesting.
Wow thanks Cort. What an eclectic set of symptoms this illness we all share has.
This is so interesting. I have mild/moderate CFS. I have almost constant facial pain, assumed it was ongoing sinusitis; it is so bad some days I feel like crying. I also have a severe (feels like nerve pain) in my ear whenever i am fighting something off and about to become quite ill with my CFS symptoms. I see it as my early warning sign. I had assumed it was secondary infections as a result of poor immune functioning. Now it seems it is possibly another symptom or impact of having CFS. Doesn’t help solve anything but at least it provides some explanation.
All those symptoms above go with Eagle Syndrome & a lot have compressions of major arteries. One needs to be seen by a Doctor ENT Skull based Surgeon with lots
of experience with Eagles Syndrome surgeries…External Surgery is be avoid internal
throat surgery. Neurologists & ENT docs with no experience are a complete waste of time. Some could also have spinal fluid leaks with ES I am trying to go see Dr. Patrick Axon in the UK the best skull based Surgeon on ES. CT Scans with Contrast &
venography. Jugular vein compressions as well & cartoid
http://www.livingwitheagles.com & Eagles Syndrome Groups are also on Facebook
http://www.livingwitheagle.com
https://www.livingwitheagle.com
My mistakes above Sorry its a .org website https://www.livingwitheagle.org Eagles Syndrome, could also explain why no medicine works & no infection as any Cause has ever been found only the antibodies
Cort, thanks for your excellent write-up!
Do you (or anyone) know of any topical nasal capsaicin that would be recommended from the study to try?
Dakota, see my reply to Ronelle above.
Thanks Carla! This product is intranasal I see, correct?
It’s a “homeopathic nasal spray with Capsaicin”
I see another product at this Amazon site:
https://www.amazon.com/Capsinol-Original-Formula-Natural-Capsicum/dp/B00H130K36
I have this “phantom nasal congestion” as a constant companion. This is one of the first symptoms I got, after headache, neck pain and fatigue. I made the mistake of asking for an x-ray. NOW I NEVER MENTION IT because it leads to disbelief. I just move along.
Interesting! I have allergies, seasonal and to animals,but are always congestied, stuffy and have pressure in the sinus area. And I have been checked tons of times and the doc says I’m all clear. So good to find out I’m not nuts . This capsaicin, is it on the market?
Maria, see my reply to Ronelle above.
Cold winds.I end up sick.White frothy flem turning like.jelly from nose throat chest stomach.Sleepy.nausia fatigued. Brain fog.Mood swings.Social life.put off.RepaIrs put off.life ruined.Had to take medication for nerves.Have to take base to.get out once a week.Live like a recluse.No appetite+live for tablets.Deep inner fear.In a rut.Can anyone thing help.
Hi Christine,
All your symptoms sound horrible. It can be so very isolating too.
My life and my outlook are curtailed in so many different ways now. I just lead a less expansive existence.
If you keep checking out this website, all sorts of ideas are discussed…
Take care of yourself as best as you can,
Tracey
I didn’t think this related to me at all but out my murky memory emerged the strange blocked nose I would get at night.
I would go to blow my nose but there was no mucus to clear. I had to breath through my mouth, which dried it out.
The weirdest part of it was that some sort of valve/flap within my nasal passage would spontaneously shut, completely blocking my nose. I have never come across that before but think maybe it’s a throwback from when we lived in the sea?
I had no control over it.
It’s gone now – it was occurring over the last few years. I was having desperate trouble finding any food I could eat, without a reaction. My diet has settled down now – very selective – but less mistakes.
I do also have irritable bowel syndrome, interstitial cystitis, multiple chemical sensitivity, asthma, eczema, heart rhythm issues, eye issues, brain issues, throat issues, fatigue and sleep issues if I eat the ‘wrong’ food.
Along with the weird nasal passage congestion, I’ve had other unusual symptoms. For a few months, about 3 years ago, I had an extremely heightened sense of smell.
A few years ago I also had the very disturbing experience (after I’d had a very bad flu with a high temperature of 41) of being too aware of the noise emanating from the covered shopping centre building. I just wasn’t filtering it out. I was also overwhelmed by the tiled floor, which seemed to be overly ‘in my face.’ I’ve been there many times before and since without any problems.
Like debs, I wouldn’t mention this stuff to anyone really. I was in with the nurse yesterday for various things and she asked if I was generally healthy and I said I thought I had ME/CFS and she said yes I think you’ve mentioned that before.
But I don’t believe the very nice nurse had any idea what that entails. I look very healthy now, paleness gone etc. So I sat there – our two world’s meeting for a short time – and thought I just cannot explain the nature of my daily existence. It is just too bizarre.
Interesting. I wonder how this relates to Dr. Brewer’s protocol.
Also, I know from personal experience that having a clogged up lymph system in the facial region can be very painful. It can make my teeth hurt. Also a lack of calcium can make my teeth hurt.
I recently learned that this sensation (?) is also a symptom of mold reactivity.
Very interesting and confirming! I find Xlear Max helps relieve my maxillary sinus pressure when nothing else will . It’s a xylitol, saline, aloe, and capsicum spray.
My facial pain is one sided – and has been so bad I went to the emergency department seeking help. But I was diagnosed with allergic rhinitis years ago, I dont think there is anything “phantom” about my sinus issues.
I know my sinus pain is related to night-time reflux. Sleeping with the head of the bed raised helps but I also take medication.
I have used xylitol chewing gum and xlear nasal spray. The spray is probably more effective but foul tasting gunk would go down my throat.
I dont think any of this explains my problems, unfortunately, but I do encourage everyone to raise the head of their bed. Trying xylitol is unlikely to do any harm, it’s good for your teeth to chew the gum but it is mildly laxative so use after every meal but no more than 8 pieces a day.
Although the researcher found histamine didn’t induce the problem. I found antihistamines good for taking prior of after exertion because they seem to reduce (but not eliminate) the incidents of Post Exertional Malaise.
I haven’t noticed if they reduce the constant 30 year long itch in my nose. And sniffing a couple hundred times a day.
I never realised the sniffing and ME/CFS were linked!!
Exercise increase mast cell degranulation (MCAS) as does getting over hot. Antihistamines help keep that from happening.
Has anyone lost their taste and sense of smell since having FM/ME/CFS?…I started to lose mine when my symptoms started to get worse…I also have the weird smells that come about randomly…Sometimes I can taste the first two bites of a meal, before I loose the taste…I will get pains in my sinus cavities once in a while, especially behind the back of my head around the occipital torus…Nose congestion is usually at night when I have to turn my head to get one of my nostrils open…
I can’t lie on my back when sleeping, unless I’m having clear breathing without a drippy nose, which is never for long. Having to be a side-sleeper doesn’t help neck pain and makes my fancy neck pillows less useful. For as long as I can remember, I have had to take turns lying on one side then turning to the next as each side fills up and drains to the whichever side gravity is on. Otherwise I would wake myself up worse to find tissue and have to blow my nose more often. Not great for already poor sleep quality because of ME/CFS and fibro.
Regarding smells and taste—despite having a drippy nose and getting clogged up often, I’m known for having an amazingly accurate and heightened sense of smell and taste—like a super power, it’s almost inhuman. I can pick out ingredients in a bite, and can smell things nobody else does and like a bloodhound lead others to the source of the smell I’m smelling. I’m very sensitive to a lot of chemicals, as well, smelled or tasted. I can’t have the smallest bit of artificial or substitute sweetener without my spit almost immediately changing taste for 24 hours and an unstoppable migraine within 12 hours. Have to read labels.
Hi Joy,
I would be the same. I can’t eat anything with additives in it. My tongue tells me if something is not right. I’d also get a nasty taste in my mouth.
I’ve also got a very good sense of smell and can’t tolerate any artificial perfumes, chemicals etc. I would feel nauseous for the rest of the day if I smelled any.
My ultra heightened sense of smell only lasted 3 months or so but it was unnerving at the time. I feared it would set my asthma off but it didn’t.
Hi Joy,
Have you come across Hyperosmia – a heightened sense of smell?
There are all these recognised conditions out ‘there’, that I never knew existed!
Eric S, I experience every one of the symptoms you describe. I, too, permanently lost my senses of smell and taste. As you mention, the first couple of bites of food I can taste. After that, not much enjoyment at all. I did discover that when I have taken enough THC-CBD combination gummies it is the only time that I can really taste and enjoy food.The phantom smells are common. To me, they are fleeting but they are more of an electrical or chemical smell. My allergist was familiar with that phenomenon and explained to me the science behind it but, she didn’t know that there was a connection between it and ME/CFS.
In regard to the nasal stuffiness, I experience that, also. Prior to my development of ME/CFS, I did have a lot of nasal allergies but the steroid nasal sprays were very effective. Not now. My allergist prescribed Olapatadine nasal spray, which someone mentioned above. It is pretty effective but now my insurance won’t pay for it and it costs $70. I am paying it out of pocket because it’s the only thing that helps with the stuffiness. Has anyone experienced the total disappearance of any dried mucus (boogers) in your nose? That happened to me two years ago.
As to the discussion of histamines playing a part, that’s a given. I stumbled upon that myself a few years ago. I discovered that when I was having a real sick, flu-like flare, if I took two Benedryl, I would feel so much better within a half hour. The terrible fatigue would dissipate and I would have so much more energy. Also, if I take Nyquil, at night, I feel so much better the following day. In Nyquil, I believe it is the Dextromathorphan (sp?) which is so helpful.That is the cough-suppressant part of the Nyquil. Interestingly, A couple of years later, I saw, on Health Rising, that there were studies being done on both drugs for treatment of ME/CFS
As far as eye problems, there are many and ophthalmologists are not aware and are puzzled when patients complain about eye problems that the ophthalmologist can’t find and, of course, like most every other physician, they have had no education about these things. My right eye hurts. It hurts to put any pressure on it, just like the pressure spots all over our bodies. I went to my ophthalmologist about this and he said that everything was fine. I also have some strange visual distortions that only happen when I am lying down reading.
Recently I developed TMJ pain in the joint in my right jaw. Not only does it cause significant pain in the joint itself, but also mimics an earache, toothache and headache on that side. It’s very disturbing. My pain doc gives me mild muscle relaxers for sleep and those do help some; also, I have a 1-1 THC/CBD cream that helps more than almost anything.
For me, the restless-leg syndrome is the worst. Thankfully, I don’t get it often but, when I do, I just want to run screaming. Does anyone have suggestions of something that would help that?
Thank you so much for this article! I know much about my ME and dysautonomia but never ran across anything that connected it to my bad “allergies.” I’ve never been able to figure out what I was allergic to in 30+ years, and do find myself extra sneezy around dust, mildew, and pollen. But what was I reacting to when those things weren’t around? We tried lots of things to improve the environment to no avail. We finally dished out the $$ for allergy testing—for the works—which came back negative for everything. I couldn’t believe it because I am sneezy with a drippy nose at least 50% of the time, and have to have boxes of tissues nearby or have them in my pocket. When I moved into a house with a hospital-grade HVAC, I was sure that my miserable “allergies” would go away. They didn’t. Then I discovered there was such a thing as nonallergic rhinitis. My poor teenaged son seems to also have it, too, and blows his nose endlessly (it seems). I hope he doesn’t also have ME!
I do also have a badly deviated septum but not sure to what extent it complicates matters, but I suspect it doesn’t make staying well or being able to breathe deeper any easier.
Joy, non – allergic rhinitis is often greatly improved by using inhaled corticosteroid nasal sprays, which are available at most chemists without a prescription. Eg Rhinocort, Beconase.
It’s best if you use it every day, and it can take up to 4 weeks to get the full benefits.
The Plot Against Asthma and Allergy Patients: Asthma, Allergies, Migraine, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome are Curable, but the Cure is Hidden from the Patients by Felix Ravikovich (2003).
I have no doubt that this book will inspire young researchers and hopefully awaken some clinical allergologists. — Prof. Dr. Cezmi A. Akdis – Head of Immunology – Swiss Institute of Allergy and Asthma Research
https://bookos-z1.org/book/5262975/5ff148
https://www.scribd.com/document/62194357/The-Plot-Against-Asthma-and-Allergy-Patients
https://www.thehistamineconnection.com/
I’m in the middle of reading this book. It is so different than anything I’ve heard before. Having MCAS this is of interest in regard to histamine. I’m not far enough into it to have an opinion. But it sure has raised me some questions.
I wonder if this is somehow tied into Ehlers Danlos? I became interested in this after learning about Jen Brea’s CCI diagnosis, and then when my son was diagnosed with Pectus Excavatum a month ago. PE has also been connected with EDS and explains his CFS symptoms. I’ll provide updates as he goes through the process as this is a little know condition and might be helpful for other CFS sufferers. Cort, you might want to look into this condition.
Connected with Marfans Syndrome and that’s connected to EDS. My dad had the sunken chest. And one of my nephews does too. I think I got a double genetic leaning towards EDS, as my maternal grandmother seemed to have had it too.
Yes, very important point. Neck instability is linked to ME/CFS and constant runny nose could also be spinal fluid leaking. Only thing helping my migraine and feeling of underpressure in brain is acetozolamide and caffeine, but I am still not sure if my constant draining in back of throat is csf or not. The nasal rinse advice with oregano or xylitol mentioned above helps me, so I guess and hope it isn’t. Grapefruit seed, hydrogen peroxide and colloidal silver works too. But when it comes to EDS and neck instability, I am almost at a loss what to do. Perhaps both the sinus and neck symptoms are related to the lymph and the membranes inability to regulate fluid? Potassium helps a little, but something is definitely wrong with the connective tissue
I had severe sinusitis every month for years. Found out it was mold (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome or CIRS). A genetic susceptibility to mold that had been switched on.
Left the mold and got medication, and it’s completely gone. I wonder how many of these cases are due to undiagnosed CIRS.
I agree – mold illness can cause dysautonomia and present with midfacial pain. *General* inflammatory markers such as those tested in his studies would not be elevated, and topical mast cell medication may not improve symptoms since MCAS is a systemic condition.
Proper testing for mold illness is done with urine mycotoxin testing (preferably provoked with glutathione).
What kind of medication?
Hi Gail,
I too have a dipped in sternum – possibly developed in adolescence. It’s only mild but my son has it too. That has only manifested itself recently in his teenage years.
My sister has also been diagnosed with a connective tissue disorder in the last few years.
Tracey, that’s interesting about connective tissue disorder in your family. If someone comes up with a good treatment for that, I think many of us with cfs will be greatly helped.
WOW! I’ve had ME/CFS and Fibro (and RA) for so long the names for these diseases were not even made yet, i.e. Fibromyalgia was called Fibrositis and doctors said it would go away. Not — that was at least 33 years ago. I have gone through dozens of sinus infections and back in the ’80s they would put me on antibiotics all winter long. I had five sinus surgeries at the Mayo Clinic too. Now I am antibiotic resistant! (I still believe antibiotics are over-prescribed.) But since my sinus infections have been gone, I experience these nasal conditions just like explained here. I believe there is a definite connection after so many years of this pain and stuffiness, especially at night and sometimes in the daytime. I take Oil of Oregano pills if I feel a cold coming on and the symptoms are much reduced, plus no sinus infections. But I do have the phantom nasal symptoms most of the year.
I have chronic uritits along with fibro and sinus pain moone can identify issue.steriods and multiple drs cannot identify cause. Frustrated.
Hi Joanne,
I have a very long list of itis’s… Over the last while, I have had terrible discomfort with urinary tract issues. It’s not an infection. I would call it Interstitial Cystitis but I haven’t had a doctor say that to me.
I have great trouble with food and in particular carbohydrates in any form. My body can spot them and becomes very displeased and irritated.
You may be reacting to something too. Do you notice anything that makes it worse? I read somewhere that Cranberry juice can be very irritating but people drink it because they think it might help. I hope you find some relief because it’s not great on top of everything else!
Please take some time to read above to my responses in relation to this issue, to hopefully give some of you a path to better health. The jaw is an extremely overlooked issue, and a regular “hygienic” dentist doesnt have the tools nor the equipment to make the proper evaluations. The jaw which is related to the airway and sinues passages needs to be taken into consideration for people with any kind of facial pain and disturbances. It is also not uncommon for the left and right jaw joints to be asymmetrical, which contributes to systemic health issues, but as far as breathing is concerned, which involves the amount of oxygen the body is receiving, and whether or not the under-developed jaw is causing you to be a mouth breather without even realizing it, contributes significantly to fatigue. Always start with the jaw, followed by the teeth, its the foundation for establishing better health.
Best,
Dan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK7iGyBNROk
Good introduction to Systemic Disease and the Jaw
The way to address many issues as it pertains to the Jaw and Health.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wAPhcECbMU
Best,
Dan
Now I understand why my ENT could not find any issues. Another doctor who believed I was nuts.
I’ve been told I have some of the smallest sinus cavities even seen on a 3d Cone Beam Scan. The ENT believes they are surrounded by inflamed tissue from over the years, so essentially the cavities are present, but not to their greatest potential.
Years ago, an ENT claimed that I was missing both Maxillary Sinuses due to un-development, but that was not the case.
Also, they were much smaller on the same side of my caviations, as opposed to the other side.
They have weird procedures now like balloon sinus-plasticity or whatever its called, this is a very harsh way of opening up the sinuses, and can result in severe pain and damage post treatment. The Mandible should always be taken into consideration first and foremost, its essential for proper health and bodily function!
Remember, the tri-geminal and cranial nerves have 100x more sensitive pain fibers than anywhere else on the human body, and this is where Substance P comes into play for those suffering with Cranio-Mandibular pain if it is not musculoskeletal in nature, or can be a combination as well.
Best,
Dan
Wow great article here. Love reading everyone’s responses.
I am in a bad place with my facial issues.
For me I think it became an issue due to hormones. My 2nd child I was getting constant infections. Was totally in a great place before. Never any issues with my first born. I never had sinus issues before except ear infections as a kid. I tell my dad I miss my old mojo with my immune system. So I went to an allergist- the one dr never thought to test antibodies. I saw a new dr there & she came into the room & said let’s test your streptococcal antibodies. Sure enough I was low in some areas so I had a booster vaccine to boost those antibodies. 2 months later I had re-tested to see if the booster shot had helped & am awaiting results. Pregnancy does a number of some women. After birth of one of their children it’s like all these issues happen. I nasal rinse & I am taking allergy shots & I am still plagued with chronic infections with sinus.
Yes I have been to a holistic dental place & they tooth out a 25 root canal & guess what it created MORE problems after that extraction. I REGRET it! Bc my roots go into the sinus & are long it’s being passed back n forth from ent to dentist all blaming eachother. Honestly I am mentally cooked. Right now have a stupid sinus infection & it involves my damn nose & I think ethmoid. Yes NOSE pain has been my life past 3 years- started AfTER that tooth extraction on tooth 12. Yes I have some inflammation inside nasal cavity was diagnosed with non allergic rhinitis after birth of my 2nd child. Yes have a slight deviated septum was never an issue before. My nose hurts!!!! Sore sore nose. Wearing a mask hurts the chunky part of nose. Been to dermatologist to make sure I don’t have something wrong- they see nothing. Meds can help a little but not sure if I need longer on one. I get white nasal discharge. Never had that before recent years. Turns to infection. Maybe gerd is involved. Started taking gerd medicine. Sleep inclined. Woke up with heavy feeling in nose. Hurts! I miss my old self.
Gosh, another weird ME/CFS symptom I spent endless hours at the hospital for with no answers. A small-but-increasing irritation in my nose, which eventually turned into facial neuralgia and chronic swelling in the roof of my mouth, which split the saddle of my tooth and forced its removal after an abcess.
I still have constant pain/irritation in my nose and mouth. I have a serious histamine intolerance, any dietary misstep makes the pain and irritation worse.
I think I’ll send a copy of this to all my doctors.
I had a nose Job like 10 years before CFS, I remembe my first symptoms on the onset (and still are) were blocked nose, no when I talk i talk like a “french” like when you close your nose with your fingers and try to talk with that typical nose-accent type. I will try that spray… have nothing to lose.
Hey,
I noticed your article and read it. I just loved the way you wrote.
Thanks for the given article.
What if a Sinus Infection is the cause of stuff like Fibromyalgia? I have had Fibro for 10 years, and also have Atypical Trigeminal Nauralgia. I have realised the fibro has been around since my early teens. I’m 38, my onset was a brutal nightmare, anxiety, panic attacks etc. I was diagnosed with a mild sinus infection 8 years ago. I also have had reflux all my life. Reflux causes nasal discharge down the throat, which is clearly heard when my father clears his throat every two minutes. He also has reflux, even though he won’t admit it. His father also has reflux. Reflux can also be silent, people have no idea they have it. I think Reflux mixed with a Sinus Infection, will permanently be bombarding the gut biome. After so many years, the gut biome is eventually overwhelmed, thus allowing the bacteria to get into the body and cause all kinds of problems on the nervous system. The symptoms won’t be visible at first, but eventually the nervous system will be overwhelmed. My sinus infection is not visible, which is why it was missed for so many years. The only clear symptom is white stuff in my nose.
Some people could have a mild sinus infection for so many years and not notice is. Eventually the bacteria makes it’s way into the gut biome, specifically the intestines. Researchers are just finding out that people with fibromyalgia have got a bacteria in their intestines. A computer can diagnosed a person with 87% accuracy.
This is my own findings living with this syndrome. Every test comes back normal because they can’t see it.
I’ve been DXed NAR, but my issues go beyond phantom congestion. Pollen season leaves me far more debilitated that my norm. My reaction is much more systemic, where my exhaustion, malaise, cognitive issues are magnified x100.
I’ve done all the allergy testing, I have no allergies. But pollen season almost always at the end of my rope.
Has anyone had success with acupuncture as a treatment for this?
I tried acupuncture for all of my pain and felt to relief. Perhaps it would be different if I told the practitioner that I specifically wanted to treat what appears to be phantom nasal congestion.
I’m amazed by this article. I too have phantom rhinorrhea (runny nose) and had a balloon sinuplasty. Running doesn’t respond to anything, well 50% of the time antibiotics help, steroids help 80% of the time. At this point, I have massive face pain issues and neck and jaw, no one can tell me what is going on. All test normal except ANA 1:320. Only recently read that runny nose can be dysautonomia. I’m sick of this
I’ve had dark circles under my eyes all my life. Tried a few things to get rid of them but nothing changed. I have no idea if this makes sense, as not medically trained – bTout it seems there is some lymph drainage from the brain through the sinuses. Please correct me if I’m wrong! But if that isn’t working properly due to congestion could be a source of problems maybe? Just thinking of what I know of the Perrin technique.
I meet all the criteria of the above condition except my pain is only on the right sinus, and I do actually get plugged up (my ears are sometimes plugged up and can’t hear, I hear “cracking sound” from mucus in the back of the throat and nose.) But, no ENTs or other doctors have found any signs of infection….. What kind of doctor should I go see?
I have this exact problem. No allergies. CT of the sinuses all clear, no abnormalities or infection etc. I do have rheumatoid arthritis, not fibromyalgia, but wonder if their could be a relation. I will be discussing this with my rheumatologist in June, but any input would be helpful.
This is my first post here. I have been dealing with CFID since 1997 but in 2005 started to develop sinus infections. This was the real thing it was left untreated for a while, and I got severely debilitated. IN 2010 I had a sinus surgery. Problem did not go away.
The doctors put me on prednisone and antibiotics. What it did was to reduce it when it happened. It’s been a constant battle. The symptoms that I have is swelling and burning in my sinus then CFID kicks in with heavy weakness and feeling poor (flu like symptoms)
IN recent years the ENTs found nothing. I am allergic to multiple things and my “infections” became heavier in the spring. I am allergic to something then.
Right now, the belief is its inflammation caused by something. Some of it may be allergies other may be acid reflux. As far as CFID being a partial cause that possible. The article here is the first time I found anything that links these symptoms with CFID. My CFID symptoms are somewhat classical weakness flu like symptoms weak muscle in upper and legs debilitating at times. At other times I am not too bad.
Over time with time and supplements that I am on along with exercise my CFID has dropped. But the constant sinus when occurs stops or slow my progress.
I have this and have fibromyalgia. It is very annoying and can be very painful. I’ve googled it many times but to no avail. Except thought it was tension headaches of some sort. This needs more attention on why it is the case!
Another ‘interesting’ article!
Interestingly, I always feel like my nose is blocked up at night and I can’t breathe properly. My prescribed (Nasonex) nasal spray isn’t very effective (although does need a week or so of regular use, but not long-term) My partner is getting fed up with my snoring! Maybe this ‘Allergic Rhinitis’ is yet another thing which is ‘to do with’ my CFS!
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