A year later, vaccinations are causing the coronavirus to recede in much of the U.S. Worldwide, though, the pandemic just had its worst week.
This blog contains:
- the race between the vaccines and the variants
- wrap-ups of the 1st Coronavirus Vaccine and the Severely Ill Vaccine polls,
- ME/CFS/FM experts’ second take on whether or not to take the vaccination
- a Vaccine Improvements Poll.
The Race Between the Vaccines and the Variants
With 24% of its population fully vaccinated, and 42 percent partially vaccinated, most of the U.S. appears to have threaded the needle in the race against the coronavirus variants. While over 60,000 people are still infected daily, the numbers are dropping and the pandemic appears to be on the wane. The vaccines have worked.
It’s not so elsewhere. Lower vaccination rates have resulted in more contagious and dangerous variants taking hold. Almost unbelievably, more than a year after the virus appeared, the world just experienced its worst coronavirus infection week ever.
India is setting almost daily records for new coronavirus infections – the most recent – a staggering 346,000. Toronto is creating hundreds of new critical care units, and transferring nurses from across its health care system to try to keep up with its load. Doctors report more young people are being hospitalized and dying. It just reported its highest number of ICU cases ever. Germany is in partial lockdown; France is coming out of a lockdown.
Nineteen variants are being tracked with potentially dangerous ones coming from the U.S., the U.K., South Africa, India and Brazil. A Brazilian variant is able to re-infect people who’ve been infected before, and may be able to evade the vaccines.
Given how fast the virus is mutating, and how slow the vaccination rates are worldwide, it wouldn’t be surprising at all to see another round of vaccinations needed when a vaccine-resistant variant pops up.
Vaccinations have been the key to stopping the virus, but anecdotal reports suggest that for some people they may be having an unexpected result – helping with ME/CFS/FM.
Health Rising’s Vaccine IMPROVEMENT Poll (For Everyone Who Has Been Vaccinated)
We made a mistake with the first side effects poll – we neglected to provide for the possibility that some people with ME/CFS/FM might get better after getting the vaccine. Who knew?
The oversight was understandable. After all the worries about vaccines, who would have thought the vaccine might actually help? Reports have circulated, though, which suggest that some people’s ME/CFS/FM symptoms are actually improving after getting vaccinated.
That was actually never outside the realm of possibility. While some trace their illness back to vaccinations, vaccines have also been used to treat both ME/CFS and FM. Gottfries treated his own and his patients’ ME/CFS for years with a staphyloccocus vaccine and the BCG vaccine has been proposed for fibromyalgia.
This poll attempts to help determine whether these are isolated incidences or if the improvements are happening to a substantial number of people. If the answer is the latter – then the vaccine effects should be studied.
In order to tell that, we need everyone who has been vaccinated – whether they have improved or gotten worse – to take this short poll. Only then will we have an idea what percentage of patients the vaccination has been helpful for.
Coronavirus Vaccine Improvement (Yes, Improvement) Poll
Before we get to the ME/CFS/FM experts’ coronavirus vaccine recommendations (Take II), check out an update on Health Rising’s first coronavirus vaccine side effects poll.
First Coronavirus Vaccine Side Effects Poll Wrap-Up
With so many countries having severe outbreaks, and the more dangerous variants percolating across the globe, the question of whether or not to get vaccinated has taken on even more significance for many.
With the number of participants doubling (almost 3,500) since since the March update, it’s time to look anew at the poll results. The results have been consistent throughout the poll’s duration.
Most people are recovering from the side effects within a week (Pfizer – 1st shot – 73%; 2nd – 67%. Moderna – 1st shot – 77%; 2nd – 70%. AstraZeneca – 1st shot – 60%; 2nd shot – too few respondents). With just about 100 people reporting, Johnson & Johnson vaccine results thus far are similar, with 75% reporting they were over the symptoms within a week.
As expected, the second shot is producing more symptoms. While 10-15% of participants reported having a severe reaction to the first Moderna or Pfizer shot, about a third are reporting having a severe reaction to the second shot. Still, most (60-70%) are getting over the side effects from the shot within a week.
People with ME/CFS/FM still appear to be having more trouble with the AstraZeneca shot. Thirty-seven percent report having a severe reaction to the first shot, and 16% reported they were still having symptoms a month later. Not enough data was available for the second shot.
While most people are doing okay, some people are having real trouble with the vaccine. Depending on which shot is received, from 5-16% of people reported still having symptoms a month later.
Severely Ill Vaccine Side Effects Poll Wrap-Up
About 230 people have taken the severely ill vaccine side effects poll. The polls suggests that the severely ill are largely tolerating the vaccines well, with a somewhat higher percentage having trouble with it compared to the general ME/CFS/FM population.
Thus far, 67% and 74% report getting over the side effects of the first Pfizer /Moderna shots within a week. Twenty-four percent and 16% (Pfizer/Moderna) reported still having symptoms 2 weeks later. Twelve and 16% reported that their side effects were severe.
As expected, the second Pfizer/Moderna shots were more troublesome. Still, a majority, 59 and 57% (Pfizer/Moderna), reported they were in the clear a week after getting the shot. Thirty and 37% reported still having symptoms two weeks later. Eighty and 65% reported moderate or less symptoms and 20 and 35% (Pfizer/Moderna) reported having severe side effects.
As did the general ME/CFS/FM population in the first poll, the severely ill fared far worse with the AstraZeneca vaccine than the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines. Only 36% of the participants reported they were over the side effects of the first shot within a week. Fifty percent and 28% were still dealing with side effects two weeks and a month later. Thirty-eight percent described their symptoms as severe.
Too few people had taken the second AstraZeneca shot (or the Johnson & Johnson shot) to attempt a summary, but the symptoms are expected to be worse.
Risks From Catching the Virus
Deciding whether or not to get vaccinated requires balancing the risk of getting infected versus the risk of relapsing from the vaccine. Getting infected with the virus carries the risk of being hospitalized, or even dying, or suffering from a significant relapse.
Sixty percent of ME/CFS/FM patients in the first Health Rising poll reported that they were still not back to baseline three months after coming down with what they believe was the coronavirus. Twenty-five percent reported they were still much worse off. Since most of the people took the poll before the more dangerous variants were widely present, the poll may understate the risks of getting ill now.
ME/CFS/FM Experts’ Vaccine Recommendations – Take Two
Several months later, ME/CFS experts chime in again on whether or not to take the vaccine.
Almost three months and millions of vaccinations later, this blog updates the doctor recommendations featured in the January 28th blog. Three health practitioners returned the survey (and I took information off Dr. Stein’s website).
They were asked about their experiences with the vaccine, if they endorse getting vaccinated, which patients, if any, they believe should not take the vaccine, which vaccines they recommend, and suggestions about how to get through the vaccination process.
The results were unanimous. All four practitioners now endorse people with ME/CFS/FM taking the vaccine (with a few provisos), including two who were on the fence on the 28th.
Dr. Chheda
Dr. Bela Chheda MD (Mountain View, California)
Dr. Chheda recommended taking the vaccine before, and recommends taking it now.
If you have experience with your patients getting vaccinated, can you say how that’s going?
I have had several patients – guesstimate ~30-40 – who have been vaccinated with the first dose so far. The majority of patients have done very well. Two-thirds of patients are flaring with mast cell/dysautonomia symptoms but are recovering anywhere from 2-3 days to 2 weeks. I have 2 patients who are still flaring a month out.
Do you recommend that people with ME/CFS/FM get vaccinated?
Yes – I am recommending that ME/CFS/FM patients get vaccinated. Based on the current data – the risk of getting complications from getting Covid seem higher compared to potential side effects from the vaccine.
Are there any people with ME/CFS/FM that you do not recommend getting vaccinated?
I am recommending to my patients that if you are still flaring 4 weeks after the first dose – do not take the second dose. Make an appointment with me, and then discuss on a case by case basis.
For any patients who have MCAS and are still not well controlled – I am recommending they wait till their MCAS is under better control.
I have another patient who is still flaring from a pneumovax vaccine she took in December – I am asking her to hold too. So if a patient is still flaring from any vaccine they may have taken – then I am asking them to hold off.
If you do recommend people with ME/CFS/FM get vaccinated, are there any specific vaccines that you recommend?
I am recommending the mRNA based vaccines for now (Pfizer, Moderna) based on the current available data – if a patient has a choice.
Getting any of the vaccine as soon as possible, though, remains a higher priority compared to which one you get. We have very little data on how patients are doing with J and J, and likely won’t know more until some patients get it.
Do you have any suggestions about ways to best get through the vaccination process?
I am asking them to take MCAS meds and supplements the day of, and then for a few days to a few weeks until they are back to baseline.
(She recommended a list put together by another doctor).
The day of:
- 25 mg Benadryl (4 hours before)
- 1200 mg NAC
- 40 mg famotidine
- 800 mg quercetin
- 1g vit C
- 200 mg riboflavin
Days after: (for a few days based on how you flared from the vaccine – take until you feel that you are back to baseline )
- 50 to 75 mg Benadryl
- all supplements listed above
- lots of rest
Dr. Eleanor Stein MD (Calgary, Canada)
Dr. Eleanor Stein“The benefit/risk ratio is decidedly in favor of being vaccinated.”
Dr. Eleanor Stein was taking a “wait and see” approach in the first vaccine survey. Three months later, her assessment of the benefit/risk ratio has put her firmly in the “take the vaccine camp”.
On the March 8th update on her website, she listed several reasons why:
- High risk of infection – in Canada 2.4% (noting that people who rarely go out have a reduced risk). 2.5% of those infected have died, with the highest risk among the frail elderly.
- Significant risk of long-term ME/CFS-like effects from getting the virus, with women at the greatest risk.
- Very high vaccine efficacy rate in preventing death and hospitalizations.
She concluded: “The benefit/risk ratio is decidedly in favor of being vaccinated.”
The exceptions – if you have had an anaphylactic reaction to any of the ingredients of a vaccine (see lists on her website), you should not take it without consulting your physician. If you are on a strong immune suppressant, such as some cancer chemotherapies or rituximab, you should discuss the timing of the vaccine with your prescribing doctor to ensure it is given at a time when you are able to mount an immune response.
Stein noted that of the 2,255,174 people vaccinated in Canada, only 214 serious side effects had been reported. That’s about 93 per million.
Dr. Stein reported that the Pfizer (and mostly likely the Moderna) vaccine was “95% effective for all severities of symptomatic illness (mild, moderate and severe).” The AstraZeneca vaccine was 63% effective for all severities of symptomatic illness, and the Johnson and Johnson vaccine was 66% against moderate and severe illness.
In March, Dr. Stein reported that she personally was waiting to take an mRNA vaccine.
- She cited Dr. Klimas’s recommendations on how to get through the vaccines.
Check out much more on Dr. Stein’s take on the vaccines here.
Theresa Dowell FNP (Flagstaff, Arizona)
Theresa Dowell FNPIf you have experience with your patients getting vaccinated, can you say how that’s going?
Ninety percent of my patients are getting vaccinated. Typically, they will get Pfizer or Moderna unless they have a history of anaphylaxis and then they get J&J.
Do you recommend that people with ME/CFS/FM get vaccinated?
Yes.
Are there any people with ME/CFS/FM that you do not recommend getting vaccinated?
History of angioedema or anaphylaxis.
If you do recommend people with ME/CFS/FM get vaccinated, are there any specific vaccines that you recommend?
Pfizer and Moderna because of the increased protection.
Do you have any suggestions about ways to best get through the vaccination process?
Three days prior to the vaccine, increase antioxidants. Depending on which antioxidants you are taking, consider these doses: Vitamin C 1,000 mg twice daily, Ubiquinol 200 mg twice daily, Curcumin 200 mg twice daily, Glutathione 250 mg twice daily.
On the day of the scheduled vaccination, make sure you are at baseline. In other words, not flared. After getting the vaccine, REST for 2 days. Avoid stressors.
Dr. Natelson MD (New York, New York)
Dr. Natelson MDDr. Natelson recommended taking the vaccine before, and recommends it now.
If you have experience with your patients getting vaccinated, can you say how that’s going?
No apparent problem; one had marked reduction in Covid-related CFS after vaccination.
Do you recommend that people with ME/CFS/FM get vaccinated?
Absolutely!!!
Are there any people with ME/CFS/FM that you do not recommend getting vaccinated?
Only for those who may be allergic to something in the vaccine. I had one highly allergic patient who decided not to get the vaccine due to this issue. (See Dr. Stein’s page for a list of materials in the vaccines).
If you do recommend people with ME/CFS/FM get vaccinated, are there any specific vaccines that you recommend?
Any one they can get.
Do you have any suggestions about ways to best get through the vaccination process?
Take advil and tylenol after the vaccination if uncomfortable.
Plus, Dr. Nancy Klimas on what to do if you are getting vaccinated
You can mitigate the risk in a number of ways – just the way you do when you feel a relapse coming on.
Before the vaccine, make sure you are taking enough antioxidants, particularly NAC or glutathione and CoQ10.
The big mediator of post vaccination relapse and immediate reactions is mast cell activation. If it happens immediately, that is anaphylaxis, but if it happens slowly and low grade over days, the mediators mast cells release can drive a classic ME/CFS relapse.
So, take an antihistamine before and for several days after the vaccine – the strongest one you can tolerate. (Benadryl is one of the strongest, Zyrtec is another good choice).
There are many mast cell stabilizers; watch Dr. Maitland’s excellent lecture from out recent CME Workshop: Managing the Syndrome Soup: POTS, EDS, MCAS & ME/CFS, if you want to know more: http://bit.ly/NovaDysCME
There are natural supplements that act to block or clear histamine and stabilize mast cells such as alpha lipoic acid, ascorbic acid, B6, diamine oxidase enzymes (DAO), luteolin, N-acetylcysteine (NAC), Omega-3’s, riboflavin, SAMe, quercetin, and natural sources of theophylline like green and black teas.
If you have been diagnosed with mast cell activation syndrome, it would make sense that your risk of an immediate reaction to any vaccine should be higher, though the data on the risk to people with mast cell activation syndrome or prior vaccine allergic reactions is not yet known with the COVID-19 vaccines.
I suspect we will know fairly quickly, with millions of doses already administered. So you may want to wait (taking all of the COVID-19 precautions very seriously).
If you do take the vaccine, plan to stay in the medical setting for at least 30 minutes, consider several hours, to be in a safe place if you do have a reaction. In this special circumstance, premedication with a steroid, the same way we premedicate people who need a CT scan with iodine contrast dye, could be provided by your physician.
Thank you for this great article and the effort you put into this work..
Did anyone in the poll mentioned side effects regarding the heart?
Because a recent article mentioned myocarditis as a side effect of Biontech…
I read several public health publications and epidemiology blogs each day. I haven’t read anything about the Pfizer vaccine being associated with myocarditis.
Bad news for all the anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists running rampant on the HR forums if vaccines actually improve ME/CFS. Can’t imagine the cognitive dissonance in that scenario, lol. But it’s not outside the realm of possibility at all – anything that affects the immune system theoretically has potential to improve or worsen ME. Wouldn’t it be interesting if the immune activation from a covid vaccine ended up somehow providing some non-specific activity against existing viral loads or symptomatology in ME.
What are “the HR forums”?
Health Rising. I went there twice for vaccine information, to see how people who got the shot were doing, etc. All I saw were threads filled with anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories. Maybe it’s not as prevalent now, IDK, it turned me off from going back so I haven’t checked recently.
I just had a look, and wow – that was some disturbing forum threads.
For anyone on the hunt for more science based discussion: have a look at the vaccine threads on the S4ME-forum.
Regarding Advil/Tylenol – some are concerned it might inhibit the antibody response.
https://slate.com/technology/2021/04/should-i-take-tylenol-after-my-covid-shot-can-i-drink.html
I followed that advice. Definitely don’t take them BEFORE the shot.
Tylenol really shouldn’t have much effect on the immune system, unlike nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medications like Advil. I took a few Tylenol in the couple of days following my second Pfizer shot.
Thank you. Opioids and Benzo would also not affect the vaccine response then?
Would steroid containing nasal spray (for season allergies) affect the antibody building?
I don’t know….Taking NSAIDS BEFORE the vaccine is not recommended. Afterwards opinions differ with most opinions I’ve read suggesting that that’s OK.
Does anyone have any info/recommendations regarding LDN & the vaccine? Could immune response/vaccine effectiveness be reduced by LDN? Should LDN be stopped for the vaccine?
Thanks Cort … good luck to anyone with improvements following the jab ? I’ve been meaning to mention – EBV is rife in my family and consequently ME also plays a part like many I read about on your blog. The latest to fall foul was my younger brother and after several serious viral infections some immunologist stated he had Behçet’s disease which I think is a similar condition to Mediterranean fever. I spoke with the consultants and told them my theory which was that it would be ME and that if they rechecked his bloods EBV would show up. ( it finally did!) Anyhow they were sticking to their original theory and prescribed Colchicine … 18 months later they accepted they made a mistake and decided it wasn’t behcets and said they didn’t know what it was ?♂️ Anyhow my brother accepted the update conditionally – that they kept him on the Colchicine as his health has been great. The medication has coincided with a change of job and reduced stress which may be more significant but wanted to run the Colchicine theory past you please … he has genuinely improved hugely ?
This may surprise some, but despite my having had severe reaction to vaccine in my life, two times, and also having MCAS…..I’m considering getting the vaccine. I also have too thick blood and that is also a consideration and I have Hypogammaglobulinemia. So issues with immune response. I’m being sent to a doc to check out my clotting factors and do other checks before getting one. Had leaned toward JJ but now with the clotting issues there, leaning more towards an mRNA one. I’ve not been one to vaccinate, due to my really poor results and life altering experience with vaccines. But this is a whole other “beast” we are talking of. I’m still uncertain……but trying to do my due diligence and being checked out well and getting approval with my known issues…..then we will see. Some other POTS and MCAS people have gotten mRNA with no problems. My sister and her sons, with POTS and MCAS and ME/CFS all got JJ. They felt ill for about 3 days, but got over it and are fine. So, thats blood kin with same issues, and they did okay with JJ.
Issie,
I had very thick blood too. Looking at a fresh blood drop under a phase contrast microscope freaked me out; a massive amount of fibrine strands and piled up red blood cells. That went away with
taking enzymes (Neprinol). Normal blood analysis showed only slight elevated fibrin dimers.
How, when and how much of those enzymes did you take? On an empty stomach? Far apart from meals or together with meals?
If on an empty stomach, how did that feel? Any unpleasant sensations?
Was gut, digestion and stool improvement one of the first things you noticed when taking those enzymes?
Thx for the info,
dejurgen
Enzymes is what I use to thin my blood. Opted for that over blood thinners. Thanks for your info. Ill look at the one you are using.
You have to take the enzymes apart from meals, otherwise they only help for digestion
First I took two tablets on an empty stomach just before going to sleep – 4 hrs after my last meal.
If possible you can take one at daytime, one at night as longs as you have at least two hours after and before a meal.
-I did not have any bad sensations ; I am a good sleeper and fell asleep just after taking them
-I have no gut problems
-I always battle with constipation; did not change
After six months I went back to my (woman) endocrinologist – interested in CVS patients and Lyme disease, looking for Babesia forms in her phase contrast microscope – and my blood looked normal again, no strands of fibrin and quite normal RBC’s
On an occasional noose bleed I thought my blood flowed a little bit too good so I lowered my dose to one tablet before sleeping. I take them al least for three years now.
My biggest problem is pain: muscles and fascia: it did not help for that.
I cannot judge for fatigue since I don’t have it frequently
It did certainly help with shortness of breath -for example after climbing stairs.
I chose Neprinol after comparing several brands because it contains many different enzymes
and because it cures Peyronia (umbend penis) ; if it can straighten a penis it should be able to dissolve the fibrin in my blood I thought ; the firm’s name was” shy to buy “!
Thanks, Cort. You say with Astra Zenica that ‘the symptoms are expected to be worse’ are you meaning that the second dose might be rougher than the first? I had a rough month after and would like to be somewhat prepared!
Have I missed something here. Where are these claimed annecdotal reports for ‘some people’? The article starts out by mentioning that ME patients can improve from the vaccine, but then there is no real reference to this in the article, except for a passing comment by a single Dr that a single ME patient may have improved. Correct me if I missed something but that seemed like false advertising to me, kind of got my hopes up. As it stands I’ll be waiting for more answers before considering the vaccine though I am by no means an anti-vaxer. Most should get it for sure.
As the blog noted all we have is anecdotal reports (unexpected reports) that some people were getting better. As it stated the purpose of the poll is to take a stab at finding out how often that has happened. It’s an exploration (not an advertisement). If ten people got better and 500 didn’t then the purpose of the poll would have been achieved and we’ll know its not worth following up on.
I’m with you, I’m so scared though to take it..I just can not go back to being bed ridden especially now that I have a two year old little boy..
Took the vaccine improvement poll. Definitely had a 2-3 month improvement after Pfizer vaccine.
Wasn’t sure how to respond to the past history of virus findings question however. When I initially saw an ME/CFS specialist, I had high viral testing results which stayed high even with several years of antiviral meds. Since doing Rituxan those viral test results have been negative- for 4 years. So yes, I had positive viral tests findings in the past, but not the recent past. Does that matter?
Good question – if you had an active infection when you got ill – please mark yes for that question. Thanks.
@Cort
would you consider adding to answers
IGm positive negative
IG g positive negative
and possibly
and seroconverted?
to positive
to negative
sericonverted to +
seroconverted to –
Cort,
Any current info on timing of the second shot? Do folks with CFS do better with vaccine #2 after four weeks, eight weeks, in Canada its four months…??
The only news I can find just relates to it as a public health policy question, not on the level of what’s healthiest and boosts the immune system longer?
Thank you!
A health care professional I read suggested simple preparations before taking a vaccine: drink a lot of water and eat something. Apparently this prevented a lot of after effects!
If the COVID vaccines are healing some people from long COVID, it makes me wonder what would happen if there were an EBV vaccine.
Sorry, I mean it prevented immediate after effects like feeling faint or dizzy.
I seem to remember that AZ second shot actually tends to be better re side effects — the opposite of Pfizer. From memory only, of reading about it.
If the first shot primes the immune system to respond and the second shot kind of catapults into action that may not happen. It would be nice, though 🙂
I am half dead after 2 Pfizer poisoning vaccinations The CDC does not recommend ME/CFS victims to get vaccine
Do you have a link to that recommendation? I had not heard that.
I was just wondering about it and came here to see if there were any reports of improvement after the vaccine!
I’ve registered 8 or 9 (out of 9) for 3 times in the past 3 weeks after the first shot. That’s a stunning full recovery even if only for a day or two. Never happened for the past 13 years. I’m hesitant to credit the vaccine though, because there were a lot of things in the past month that could will have elevated my condition through the novelty effect (wrapped up moderately successful skiing season, busy preparing for upcoming hobodom in the wilderness, etc.)
I suppose you’ll be able to tell a little better if many more people report improvement, so put me on the column for the improvement for now.
Which vaccine did you get?
I got pfizer.
Hi Cort, Can you please add info on *how long after* having a vaccine people should complete the survey. I presume you mean, say, at least 1 month? And long enough for the immediate side effects to have subsided? I had my 1st shot just 4 days ago (in Australia, couldn’t get one earlier), so won’t be completing yet : )
Good point! I’d also be interested in those not recovering to be able to keep reporting back, if they eventually recover or continue indefinitely. Like me 5 years ago from a flu shot, permanently worsened. Although I’m still pro vaccine and still pro most ME/CFS people having the Covid shot as it seems many times less risky than risking an actual Covid infection.
Still because of my history, I’m worried I’ll permanently worsen again though. So I’m watching this like a hawk
Something I haven’t seen mentioned in any of the vaccine discussion thus far, and might be worth considering for any future polls:
There are two groups I keep running across in the ME/CFS community. One is the “I never catch colds/flus anymore since I got ME/CFS” and the other is the “I catch everything and get it really bad”. I would be interested to know if one group or the other is more strongly represented in either the “bad side effects” or “felt better from the vaccine” groups. It might be worthwhile to include a question with options along those lines and see if any correlations emerge.
Great question. It makes sense that it might be a significant factor in one’s vaccine response whether one’s immune system is generally over-active or under-active. (It often seems to be either one or the other with ME/CFS.)
i agree, good idea!… and thanks so much cort for your excellent work!
Good call! This may well be significant.
It should be added to the polls.
Yes good point! That could be an important variable
Unless you can hide away from covid – and lets face it for some of use life doesnt change much if shielding – then the risks of covid at most ages are higher than the risks of the vaccine. This is a really nasty disease and the more people study it the more parts of the body they find it is affecting.
I know someone who worked in a covid ICU, took my jab as soon as it was offered and getting the second one soon. I prepared by taking probiotics and NAC and would say I got a slight improvement in fatigue. While it’s not a lot more it’s good to be able to walk a bit further.
Anyway I certainly didnt get any worse and if I manage to get covid now I’m a hell of a lot less likely to die of it. Hopefully I’m a lot less likely to get covid blood clots or long covid too.
Hi – which version of the vaccine did you get? Thanks
I think there should be a recommendation for those with past vaccine worsening (like myself who had severe permanent worsening from a flu shot) that if we get the Covid vaccine we should try getting a smaller spread out dose, like they give for babies with vaccines. 1/2 dose or even 1/4, Then wait for the flare to go and get the next shot.
And importantly if someone is still flaring beyond 2 weeks, talk to your doctor about a course of a glucocorticoid steroid to reduce the cytokine activity.
There was a 2012 flu vaccine study that showed ME/CFS patients with abnormal cytokine activity well after healthy controls, at 28 days after.
I remember reading somewhere that one patient in that study was still worsening when the trial finished, because the authors never expected that Cytokine activity would continue so long.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267639155_The_Effects_of_Influenza_Vaccination_on_Immune_Function_in_Patients_with_Chronic_Fatigue_SyndromeMyalgic_Encephalomyelitis
Meaning the best thing I can think of to dampen down that unusual cytokine activity, is glucocorticoids. As may prevent a flare or permanent worsening
I remember Dr Nancy Klimas showed after exertion that ME/CFS patients had a lot of cytokine activity but also miscommunication.
My question Is: Is anyone in ME/CFS research looking at how to dampen down this cytokine miscommunication, because it happens after infection, after exertion and for some of us after after vaccination .
Interestingly (Slightly off topic) I saw another study showing ‘Long Covid’ sufferers (many now looking like PVFS and ME/CFS) had developed autoantibodies to cytokines and chemokines themselves which if ME/CFS have too, could explain the crazy miscommunication between cytokines and other immune signalling proteins.
Unfortunately due to lack of funding that research has never been done on ME/CFS patients. But I bet there’s large ME/CFS subgroups that have these same autoantibodies too
Diverse Functional Autoantibodies in Patients with COVID-19 | medRxiv
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.10.20247205v4
FWIW, some people with Restless Leg Syndrome have reported that Moderna is therapeutic.
This article makes me doubt every one of these ME/CFS “experts”. All you need to do is look on the VAERS site to see all the serious reactions and deaths – and that’s with their admission that under 1% of adverse events are even reported. Yet, there are hundreds there. I personally know several people who are now experiencing horrible neurological symptoms including tremors, seizures, brain fog, chronic fatigue, bells palsy, guilanne barre, etc, that can’t seem to be fixed and many whose family members or friends have died after this shot. The best holistic / integrative / alternative doctors I know in the Lyme community who can sometimes reverse damage from other vaccines now say they don’t even know how to detox this poison out of you. I’m extremely shocked and disappointed in the stance of these ME/CFS “experts”.
But from what I’ve read, the risks from the disease itself appear to be very much greater than from the vaccines. I’ve just been to the VAERS website and can’t find any articles that back up your alarmist views on the scale of adverse side effects linked to covid-19 vaccines. Can you provide a link to the specific article/data you had in mind? I haven’t got the energy at the moment to search through the scientific literature, but here’s an article from the BBC comparing the risk from the Astrazeneca vaccine to the that from Covid-19 and other risks https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-56665396
Thank you so much for these polls and comments from ME/CFS experts – they persuaded me that for people with ME/CFS the risk from the vaccine is much much lower than from the disease itself (except possibly in particular cases). I had my first Moderna jab a week ago, and will fill out one of your questionnaires once a month has passed or my side-effects have completely subsided. So far: I had the vaccine in the morning (Tuesday 20.04) and then in the evening I started to have a flu-like feeling (but without fever). I also had a bit of pain in the arm. The flu-like symptoms (including tiredness) lasted about a day and a half and then I felt better for about a day and a half, and then a more moderate wave of tiredness and slight flu-like symptoms started on Saturday (24.04), which are still continuing today. Might the first bout of symptoms have been caused by my innate immune system reacting, and the second bout by my adaptive immune response??
Does anyone know if the subunit Novavax vaccine, soon to be released, is better for ME/CFS?
Please let know if you get any responses regarding the Novavax .. Thank you
Thank you for the update Cort. Having had a really horrible reaction to my shingles 2nd shot, I am really anxious about this vaccine. Having clear guidance is reassuring, especially since my gp does nothing for me. Appreciate all the timely and excellent info Cort!
Thank you for all the data and comments about the vaccines. They really helped me make the decision to get the vaccine. I am now fully vaccinated, but had very different responses to the 1st and 2nd shots. I have an up-regulated immune system – haven’t had a cold or flu in the 10 years that I’ve had ME/CFS – and have wondered whether this may have affected my response?
After the 1st Moderna shot, I had an increasingly painful upper arm which lasted about 48hrs. As the pain increased though, my brain fog and joint pain lifted and for about 24hrs I could move around with the athleticism of my pre-ME/CFS life and think straight again. Then sadly, as my arm improved, my brain fog and joint pain returned. Still, it was a brief but glorious interlude.
With the 2nd vaccine, I experienced a much more standard response – fever for 24hrs that reached 103F, chills, loss of appetite. It took several days to recover. After a week I felt back to baseline, but then over did it resulting in a fever of 101.5F on days 10 and 11. I was a bit concerned that my fever would not return to normal, after years of living with a low grade fever caused by EBV, but 2 weeks on and I’m back to normal. Bit disappointed that the improvement the first vaccine seemed to promise didn’t materialize, but glad to have got through the process.
J.C.
i sure wish a research group could capture patients like you in their research studies.
Hopefully whomever it is studying the group of college students long term will find that some of their ‘contracted cfs me ‘ group have a recovery like you did for their first vaccination,
and be able to get samples that can be mined for info.
You may be interested in the NIH Clinical Trails going on right now at 30 sites around the country for “High Allergy and Mast Cell Activation” Patients: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04761822
Ahhh Haaaa! I have been on a “roll” for the past week or so and getting better instead of having to pace more (or crash) do to increased activity. Had never occurred to me that the improvement was due to the vaccine. I started using Ashwagandha liquid under the tongue in the a.m. and was attributing it to that as only change to my routine. My second dose of Moderna was April 1st and improvements to how I feel began this past week. 14 years ago I was a morning person and hard to remember how that felt, but am not having to get back on the bed to recline after first getting up and going to the bathroom. Walking is easy. As we usually do, I am quickly crossing all sorts of chores off my list. Yahoooooo! Been expecting to crash any day now, but now I have some hope this could last a while. Thank you Cort! P.S. I take a lot of supplements to boost my immunity, no prescriptions except 5 mg. of Zolpidem, and in the ME/CFS group that only gets a cold once a year if at all.
I guess it *could* be the vaccine talking in your case, but Ashwagandha’s claim to fame for centuries in India is that of bringing back homeostasis — if cortisol is too high, to bring it down, if it is too low, to bring it up.
Cortisol is “the stress hormone” and almost everything is stress (exertion) compared to lying still. Thinking, feeling, and exercising especially if you suffer from cfs/ME or FM.
If cfs/me/fm are all autoimmune and all about a hypervigilant or always raised immune response, then I would be more inclined to thank the Ashwagandha than the vaccine.
HOWEVER, always keeping an open mind I consider that this could be a happy coincidence in which the vaccine triggered a raised cortisol, inflammation etc and while the ashwagandha has no brain, that was just the thing to kick the ashwagandha into action.
Put another way, whatever effect it is that ashw. has on our hypothalamus and down the cascade to our adrenal glands, the ashw made it even *possible* to have an improvement and this mega virus being present was just what it took to wake up your body’s habituation to high cortisol.
Congratulations !
If anyone cares to join the Facebook ME/CFS and the Covid Vaccines it is apparent that a minority of patients are having some pretty nasty long term reactions to this intervention.
These are not conspiracy theorist or anti-vaxxers obviously – in fact many were highly pro-jab. It is also apparent that the majority of the press, medical profession and government are adopting a form of ormeta, denying any side-effects and failing to facilitate informed consent in order to “get the job done”.
In the UK our own under reported yellow card scheme clearly shows a wide range of after-effects.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/979485/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-BioNTech_vaccine_analysis_print.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/979487/COVID-19_AstraZeneca_vaccine_analysis_print.pdf
Inevitably there will be collateral damage from such a policy and I suggest those of us with damaged bodies will likely be in the front line.
Thanks, I will join the group.
I have also seen the UK’s recorded adverse events (including deaths) database, and they are significant (for over a few months), when compared to cumulative years of flu vaccine adverse reports.
I have a close friend who experienced severe carpal tunnel syndrome from Pfizer, a family member who still has muscular back spasms 7weeks after Pfizer. Many anecdotal reports of people with AI type 1 diabetes (I run a support group) suffering either severe hypoglycaemia or hyperglycemia post jab, and prolonged volatility in blood sugars (over 4weeks later for some) post vaccine.
Unexpected and prolonged bleeding from 2 friends.
A person with long term poor health, but still mobile, is now bedridden after AZ.
A friend with no previous health issues has been left with vertigo and ear/balance issues including tinnitus.
Most suffered with the usual flu symptoms for up to 10days after vaccination.
Sadly, for some of us, we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t, especially as it looks as if these vaccinations will need repeating annually. I had severe issues after a swine flu vaccination, so I am watching and waiting for now.
I do hope scientists are working on alternative treatments for those of us who are susceptible to long term vaccine issues.
I have a question on Theresa Dowell FNP (Flagstaff, Arizona)’s answer. If possible, I would like more detail on her reasoning here:
“Are there any people with ME/CFS/FM that you do not recommend getting vaccinated?
History of angioedema or anaphylaxis.”
First, does this mean ANY history, or only history with vaccines, or only history with ingredients in vaccines?
Second, it would help to know where the angioedema concern is coming from. E.g. is it from cases with vaccines? Which subtypes?
As an example, I have an extremely rare subtype of angioedema, triggered by extremely tiny amounts of multiple types of a very common substance, C1-INH normal, completely unaffected by very high doses [4-8x] of antihistamines. [Bedridden and too sick to find a specialist. Despite it seemingly not being histamine-mediated in the slightest, I have many signs and symptoms of MCAS including positives on the unusual lab tests. And allergies and mold exposure and continuing mold and dust exposure. I don’t know if any of that is relevant but didn’t want to leave out context.]
So, if possible, it would be helpful to know the sources behind, and the scope of, her angioedema answer if possible and she’s willing.
Thanks for your efforts, Cort. The problem with mixing FM with ME/CFS is that we don’t know who has been able to get a differential diagnosis. It seems many of the severely ill don’t have access to what other people say unless they have a caregiver. It is very helpful to know what prophylaxis recommendations or after-care are available. Sadly, it’s too late by the time one takes the vaccine, although of course one risks both Covid and Long Haul Covid (which may be yet another blow to the immune system.)
I have ME/CFS, fibromyalgia and chronic migraine. I am currently on CGRP blocking injections. I have developed severe neurological problems following the first Pfizer vaccine including chronic falling down dizziness, nausea, disorientation, severe cognitive impairment, feels as if I have dementia. I have fallen many times since the vaccine, and now require a cane. It has been 6 weeks. One of the unfortunate ones I guess.
Sorry to hear that Carla! Good luck getting better.
The challenge with all of the vaccines is that we just don’t know what the long term or rare effects may be in some vaccine recipients.
Israel has the highest rate of vaccinated citizens in the world. A new adverse effect, reactivation of herpes zoster virus has just surfaced in some people vaccinated with MRNA vaccines. So far, the numbers are small, but this information gives you pause to think about whether herpes viruses like EBV and HHV6 might also be reactivated in some patients.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/92106
EBV and IMO other herpes virusses are opportunisitc pathogens, popping up and reactivation when you are weak. I can imagine a bad reaction to a vaccine can do that. I can also imagine a strong bout of (Covid) infection can do that. This Covid thing has few winners.
Thanks for this survey. At 3 days post first Pfizer I’m feeling a little better than normal but not as good as day 1.
Wondering what happened to the Gottfries clinic, the OMF B12/folate study, and a commenters experience with Imuran, (in the linked article) It was fascinating.
I am very disappointed by Cort’s refusal to engage with Ivermectin as a treatment for Covid-19. Instead, he appears to be beholden to the big pharma approach to medicine.
Professor Satoshi Omura, who won the Nobel Prize in 2015, for discovering the antiparasitic drug Ivermectin has had a paper recently published that concludes: “clinical trial results have been and continue to be accumulated showing that ivermectin is effective in the treatment and prevention of COVID-19, ”
Yet apex medical authorities continue to inject fear, uncertainty and doubt regarding the efficacy of Ivermectin for treating Covid-19. Professor Omura takes up these issues in his paper:
“Regulators argue that existing data on the efficacy of ivermectin for COVID-19 are biased in its study plans and methods, and are insufficient to determine validity. A meta-analysis of 14,906 patients in the 42 clinical trials101) described above has shown sufficient efficacy of ivermectin, with a 1 in 4 trillion chance of the conclusion being a mistake. Yet, it is still considered insufficient evidence. Randomized controlled trials are regarded important by regulators. There are 21 trials employing 2,869 patients out of 42 studies. If regulators argue that studies of this magnitude are inadequate to allow the clinical use of ivermectin in COVID-19, then legitimate and compelling explanations for such judgements should be required.”
Sadly, the NIH, WHO and other apex health bodies, which are beholden to the big pharma approach to medicine, provide the flimsiest evidence to support their dismissal of Ivermectin. Thankfully, doctors around the world are putting patients first and following the science. The decision of India’s Institute of Medical Science to allow doctors to prescribe Ivermectin is very welcome.
Professor Omura’s paper, Global trends in clinical studies of ivermectin in COVID-19 can be found on the link below:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Satoshi-Omura-Global-trends-in-clinical-studies-of-ivermectin-in-COVID-19-Japanese-Journal-of-Antibiotics-March-10-2021.pdf
My husband and I both used Ivermectin when we first developed symptoms of Covid. It did nothing at all as far as we could tell. My husband ended up in the hospital and almost died the first two days and was in the hospital for 12 days. I have had Covid symptoms for a month. I lost faith in the Ivermectin theory. Also had two friends who used it and they were moderately ill as well and one of them also ended up in the hospital.
Woo-woo.
Earlier someone asked if we should continue taking our LDN before vaccination and I imagine the days following. Anyone have any thoughts on whether to stop LDN? Thanks, I get my vaccine next week.
I agree! Thanks for speaking up. I totally regret the shot I had 16 days ago. I was functioning before and I now am bedbound with debilitating fatigue and brain fog with severe insomnia and heart issues. I can’t believe I fell for it. No studies if the mrna gets into the brain and produces spike proteins that the immune system can’t take care of.
I’m sorry that you’re having the reaction you’re having and the vaccines were tested in tens of thousands of people who were followed for months after they’d received it. If the immune system can’t take care of the spike proteins that the coronavirus produces how could they take care of the entire virus ????
But did any of those tens of thousands of people have ME/CFS?
Except for those who didn’t know they had ME/CFS but were diagnosed as being depressed or were not diagnosed at all, no – but the group was in various stages of health. I don’t believe that people with autoimmune diseases were in the studies but the AMmerican College of Rheumatology recommended that they get the vaccine. Studies have found that they are at higher risk of being hospitalized.
https://www.uchealth.org/today/expert-discusses-autoimmune-diseases-and-covid-19-vaccines/
Note that ME/CFS doesn’t have nearly the degree of immune disruption found in those diseases…
I’ve been trying to find information on specific symptoms I’ve had since my second dose of Pfizer on May 1st. After my first vaccine I had a mild headache, and very sore and stiff neck and shoulders, that was it. Those symptoms subsided after a couple of days. 18 hours after the second vaccine, I had intense nausea for about 3 hours in the early morning. After it subsided, I slept on and off all day, then got a bad headache, which improved after one Advil. I forgot to mention that I’ve had bad allergy symptoms when I got the shot. Now 4 days after, I still have that woozy, slightly queasy, headachy feeling in my head, made worse by reading, typing. I’ve been taking Benadryl and decongestants. No fever. It feels like my usual allergy symptoms, but worse. It almost feels like motion sickness. Hope it gets better soon! Anyway, just wondering how “normal” this side effect is and if any others have had it, for this long.
Hi Cort,
Fantastic that you now do this new survey. How long after the vaccination do you want us to fill this in? Only after the second one or also after the first jab.
Thanks
If the symptoms, if any, from the first shot are gone then do it now and click the Save and Continue button – and then come back when the symptoms from the second shot, if any, have resolved. I would give yourself a week or two after either shot in any case. My symptoms cropped up five days after the second shot and then, thankfully, disappeared.
I’m one of Chheda’s two patients still in a bad flare after 5 weeks. She implied in my recent appointment that this reaction was relatively common and said it could go on for six months or more. Odd since it sounds like this is actually quite rare! Really hope they are eventually able to tease out why this would help some of us, not be a problem for most, and cause major problems for a few – perhaps just a matter of what other viruses we have onboard.
Hello everyone,
I know we are having Corts fantastic polls regarding the side effects. Nonetheless I’d really appreciate to hear more about your experiences with the vaccinations against the Corona virus.
I have severe ME (20-30 on the Bell scale), a slight lack of IgG A and according to the recent immunological tests my immune system has a very limited ability to fight off infections on the one hand and on the other hand, my unspecific immune system is far over the border fighting against something. I’m relatively new to the ME community, I was diagnosed last August.
I’d like to get vaccinated, but I’m also scared of long lasting effects that might inhibit me to get out of bed at all. I have two little children ?
I’d be very glad o hear from people in similar situations here.
Hi Corinne – difficult decision for sure. We do have a poll on how the more severely ill are doing – https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/03/17/coronavirus-vaccine-poll-chronic-fatigue-fibromyalgia-severely-ill/ – and I hope that some people with your test results can chime in.
Good luck!
I have FM and the vaccine (Astra Zeneca) sent me into a huge flare. It’s taken me two months to claw back my energy levels back to somewhere near where they were previously, and now I have my second jab due on Saturday. I will go and have it as I feel it’s the responsible thing to do, but I am not relishing the prospect.
Oh my Julie, 2 months 🙁 I have FM (23 yrs) and migraines, and am really struggling still to feel well still and am now 17 days after my first Pfizer shot and am due for the 2nd one next week on Wednesday. I will likely go ahead with it but am a bit worried. I’ve been sick every day but 3 out of those 17 days. Not bedridden sick but stuck in the recliner sick with what seems to be rotating headaches, gastro/intestinal issues, nausea, worse fatigue than usual, increase in numbness/burning skin, feeling warm/flushed but no fever, and brain fog (which is not usually too bad for me). Thanks to Cort for all the work you’ve done putting all this info together, it has been helpful in decision making and not feeling alone in side effects.
Sorry to hear that. Have you thought about trying a IV of saline solution. That can be really effective at times at helping to get over a relapse.
I’ve had CFS/ME for 35 years. I got the Pfizer vac at the beginning of April. In the past 2 weeks I’ve noticed a significant improvement. For ex I can walk for about 30 minutes now 4X a week. Previously I could do that 1 time every 2 weeks but needed to rest up well before walking. I have increased my physical activity and recoup my energy faster.
Hoping for more improvement after the 2nd dose.
How did the second shot go ?
The poll asks how long improvement has lasted, if you’re still experiencing improvement. It seems like the answer would depend on how soon you take the poll. For example, someone’s improvement could last a lifetime, but if they took the poll two weeks after their last vaccine shot, they would only be able to answer 1-4 weeks for that question. It would be a true answer at the time they answered the question, but not really an accurate representation of their overall improvement. If we’re experiencing improvement, should we wait 3+ months to take the poll?
The poll was basically intended to capture a snapshot and see if a significant were at some point receiving benefits. If so that might open the door to a more rigorous study by a research group.
It will be alot of work to collate all the responses I am sure, but some are hoping you can differentiate between ME/CFS and FM in terms of reactions. Massachusetts ME/CFS and FM Society have a very good resource for people to use in case they don’t have a good doc to help them work this out on their own. Thanks very much.
After the 1st shot of Pfizer, I experienced more energy for 3 days. After the 2nd shot 3 weeks ago, I’ve started to notice some improvement. First I didn’t want to hope. I’ve been sick since 1993 after a benign viral infection. My health has been declining over the years with more and more other “small” illnesses, most of them auto-immune ones. I’m on disability now at 60. I’ve spent the last 3 years lockdowned at home because of the pain and exhaustion. I don’t remember being so “well” as these past 3 weeks. I’m still tired and painfull but when I lie down after an activity (meals, shower, internet…) I don’t feel feverish and no tough headache as before. I think the post exercice malaise is gone. I hope this improvement will last, even for a few more weeks (I’m part of the “never catch a cold/virus” subgroup). Sorry for the English, it isn’t my mother tongue.
Please can you include your research the impact of vaccinations on those who had M.E. prior to catching covid-19, and who now have long covid in addition to M.E.? I need to compare the risk and hazard of catching covid again against the possible impact of the vaccine on someone with ME who has already been exposed to covid. I can’t find this information anywhere so am still hiding myself away from the world before I know what to do for the best.
I’m so sorry I hope you get better, this illness is horrible ..?
My severe ME/CFS type illness results from a drug called Ciprofloxacin, a Fluoroquinolone antibiotic class. As a victim of serious effects from pharmaceuticals, I would like to explain why many people are hesitant about the vaccine for Covid 19. It would be interesting to address the fact that in Canada, although drugs are approved by Health Canada, the consumption of any drug or vaccine is at our own risk.
I have always been pro-vaccine and received all my vaccines except the H1N1 in 2009. Please note that I am disabled and unable to work following a 6 weeks Ciprofloxacin treatment in summer 2016. Health Canada only recognized the severe persistent and debilitating effects in January 2017 (https://healthycanadians.gc.ca/…/hc-sc/2017/61900a-eng.php). Although I am homebound and even bedridden due to severe debilitating fatigue and exercise intolerance, the medical system in Qc does not consider seriously my post-Cipro disability, despite the US FDA and Health Canada safety/black box warnings regarding the Fluoroquinolone antibiotics.
In addition, I lost my career, all my income and the last straw is that I have to fight against the disability insurer. Previously, I was a productive to society mechanical and aerospace engineer (7 years of university) working over 45 hours a week and having an active life.
In Canada, the aspect of transparency regarding to drug approval and safety is low (it is the pharmaceutical companies that study the safety, not the authority … this is an obvious conflict of interest) AND there is no recognition or compensation mechanism for victims of pharmaceuticals, who often lack the financial capacity and evidence to sue the drug companies which are too powerful. Also, the majority of doctors or pharmacists do not report side effects in 99% of cases, according to several studies (less than 1% of side effects are reported according to the FDA).
Whatever happened to you following drug or vaccine consumption, doctors, pharmacists, healthcare system, Health Canada, etc. will not be on your side and you will be left on your own.
Although, it might surprised you, I took the decision to take the Covid vaccine. Well it was a bad decision that I regret. Now, I’m worst and still not recovered more than 7 weeks after the frst dose. Following symptoms are worst: cognitive dysfunction ad brain fog; more time needed to recover from small amount of exercise (exertion intolerance worst); new body aches and soreness; overall less functionnal capability and more often bedridden.
So I’m astonished some persons are improved by this vaccine! It obvioulsy prove ME/CFS type illnesses are a group of miscellaneous undiagnosed illnesses put under the umbrella of ME/CFS by lack of medical knowledge and interest.
Today, I have canceled the second dose of covid vaccine, since I’m affraid to become even worst than how I am actually.
In my province, government decides to have a Covid vaccine passport to force people to get the vaccine. We are far from “my body my choice” as in democratic countries, but this is another topic…
Where’s the poll that describes people’s experiences with getting worse after the vaccination, other than stating symptoms persisting beyond 30 days. I only see improvement/no improvement questions. Why no deep dive there? Or is it elsewhere?
Check out the link at the very top of the website. Also plug in vaccine side effects in the search bar and several polls will pop up.
Hi, I’ve had off the charts levels of EBV for years. I’m no longer symptomatic, but the levels never go down when tested. If I feel ok does that mean that the high levels on the test no longer matter? I’m just considering this when considering getting a covid vaccine.
Thank you.
I know people who have died after the Covid Jab and at least five people who have long term side effects from the Covid Jab.
These people were healthy. Some had heart attacks and blood clots and one lady has impaired circulation in her arm from the shot. One woman I know got shingles after the Jab and one guy has balance and vertigo problems. One guy got Guillan Barre syndrome.
These shots are NOT vaccines they are gene therapy. No long term studies and thousands of deaths and injuries as reported on the Vaers government website.
The ingredients in these shots are not listed. But people getting the shot have abnormal blood clotting and micro blood clots that show up on a Dimer test.
I wouldn’t get that Covid Jab if they gave me a billion dollars.
It really is disgusting reading the comments making fun of people who don’t want that poison Covid JAB.
I know people who were healthy and took the Covid JAB and died!!!! They died from heart inflammation and blood clots.
Stop being so ignorant!!!!
The Covid Jab is POISON!!!
Bill Gates and Fauci are monsters. They both need to be put on trial from crimes against humanity.
I can’t imagine in a million years why people with CFS would take the experimental Gene Therapy JAB.
You weren’t wrong, this whole comment section aged real poorly.. lot of naivety and media buzzwords being slung around, not enough questioning the conspirators.. And three years later the wait times for the specialists are all backed up with the vax-injured and long vax cases, so the folks who had CFS to begin get to waitlist behind the ones who ran head first into it.
Hi
Does anyone know where I can find out what doses of those supplements Dr Klimas recommends? Am about to have my first vaccine (Pfizer), so want to get the correct supplements.
Also, wondering if it matters which brand?
Thanks so much
Tess