The Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) is back again and it doesn’t look like it’s going to go away anytime soon. In fact, we’ll likely be seeing more and more of this complex virus as time goes on – and hopefully, finally, learn not just what it’s doing in long COVID but in chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) as well.
“LIINCING” the Epstein-Barr Virus and Long COVID
The LIINC group at UCSF has been very active in the long-COVID field.
The “Chronic viral coinfections differentially affect the likelihood of developing long COVID” study came out of a very active group of long-COVID researchers at one of the top medical universities in the country – the University of California at San Francisco. Early on in the pandemic, they formed the “Long Term Impact of Long COVID”, or LIINC group, and started studying long-COVID patients. They are all in on long COVID.
They’ve been responsible for a number of findings, including that gut microbes are leaking into the blood, that systemic inflammation and profound immune dysregulation is present, that Paxlovid may be helpful, that exercise capacity is reduced, and that persistent immune activation is present. LIINC is an independent group that is also working within the RECOVER Initiative.
This study was focused on finding patterns of EBV activation in long-COVID patients vs people who had recovered from COVID-19. Did people with long COVID have an active EBV infection? Was their immune response to the virus different?
The Study
The Epstein-Barr virus is being associated with more and more diseases.
The group assessed 5 different antibodies the body produces to tamp down EBV infections:
- EBV-VCA IgG antibodies – high levels indicate a recent infection.
- EBV-IgM antibodies – high levels indicate a recent infection.
- EBV – c VCA IgG antibodies – indicate an infection sometime in the past (95% of people have been exposed to EBV).
- Anti-EA-D IgG antibodies – indicate that an active infection is present or that a recent infectious event occurred.
- EBV nuclear antigen [EBNA]) IgG – The levels of this antibody usually increase as the virus transitions to latency. EBNA antibodies can be involved in mimicry (i.e. they can attack the body tissues) and have been associated with an autoimmune response.
They also directly looked for evidence of EBV in the blood using PCR in 50 participants and assessed whether the participants had been exposed to another herpesvirus called cytomegalovirus (CMV) at some point (CMV IgG test).
Plus, they also assessed several neuronal and immune markers:
- markers of neuronal injury, inflammation, and immune activation (glial fibrillary acidic protein [GFAP, a marker of astrocyte activation] and neurofilament light chain [NFL, a marker of neuronal injury],
- cytokines – monocyte chemoattractant protein-1 [MCP-1], IFN-γ, IL-6, IL-10, TNF-α, and IP-10).
They also took a deep dive into symptoms. They used two different symptom assessments to assess new symptoms: the CDC’s 32 COVID-19 symptom list and the Patient Health Questionnaire (PHQ) somatic symptom scale. Because neither assesses the frequency of symptoms, and only the PHQ assesses the severity of symptoms, none would be considered an adequate symptom assessment in an ME/CFS study. (If you want to do really good symptom assessments you have to go to the field that needed to develop them (ME/CFS) and use Lenny Jason’s DePaul Symptom Questionnaire which assesses both frequency and severity.) The authors also used a visual analog scale to assess general health pre- and post-infection.
They created different symptom groups – fatigue, neurocognitive, gastrointestinal, and cardiopulmonary – and then assessed whether the different results (EBV antibodies, CMV antibody, cytokine, and neuronal panel) were associated with them; i.e. whether an EBV antibody was associated with increased levels of neurocognitive symptoms, etc.
This research group had been concentrating on HIV. Because some studies suggested that people carrying the HIV retrovirus were more likely to come down with long COVID, the study included about 55 people living with HIV, which apparently left the study cohort a bit male-heavy. Fifty-six percent of the 280-person cohort were males, 19% were living with HIV, and 18% had been hospitalized during their COVID-19 infection. The participants were assessed about 4 months post-infection.
The Fatigue and Nervous System Virus?
“The study confirmed that a connection between EBV reactivation and long COVID exists”. The authors
EBV reactivation was associated with increased fatigue and neurocognitive symptoms in long COVID.
The tests did not indicate that the long-COVID patients had an active EBV infection. EBV was detected in the blood by PCR in only 1 of the 50 people tested, and it was at low levels.
Higher levels of EBV NA IgG – the antibody that gets produced as the virus is settling into its latent state – were, however, associated with neurocognitive symptoms and with having long COVID.
Increased levels of EBV EAD IgG – the antibody that suggests that a recent infectious event has occurred – were strongly associated with new-onset fatigue. Being hospitalized, having a prior autoimmune diagnosis (thyroiditis), and having a high basal metabolic index were also associated with more new-onset fatigue.
Note that his paper found that the long-COVID group did not have an active EBV infection. Long COVID was associated with: a) the immune response to the reactivation of the virus that occurred during the COVID-19 infection; and/or b) an immune response to the virus settling into a latent state. In either case, this paper suggests that it’s the immune response to the reactivation of the virus that was causing problems.
The Gist
- The “Long-term Impact of Infection with Novel Coronavirus”, or LIINC group, at the University of California at San Francisco started studying long-COVID patients early.
- They’ve produced several findings in long COVID. In this study, they assessed the levels of 5 EBV antibodies, used PCR to see if EBV was in the blood, assessed several immune and nervous system factors, and used symptoms to put long-COVID patients into different categories: fatigue-long COVID, neurocognitive long COVID, gastrointestinal long COVID, and cardiopulmonary long COVID.
- Nothing in the results suggested that EBV was “active”; that is, it was not producing more virions. Instead, the results suggested that an active EBV infection triggered at the time of the coronavirus infection (but which was no longer present) had produced an immune response that was causing problems in long COVID. In other words, the virus has gone into hiding, but the immune response lingers on.
- This showed up in the increased levels of 2 antibodies to EBV in the long-COVID patients that were associated with increased fatigue and neurocognitive symptoms. Since they were not associated with gastrointestinal or cardiopulmonary long COVID it does not appear that EBV reactivation is having much of an effect on them.
- The fact that antibodies to EBV were associated with fatigue wasn’t entirely surprising as EBV reactivation has been associated with fatiguing illnesses like infectious mononucleosis, multiple sclerosis, and ME/CFS.
- At least five studies have found evidence of EBV reactivation in long COVID, and EBV has been found reactivated in autoimmune diseases, in immunocompromised patients, during times of hormonal changes, in ME/CFS, and during stressful situations.
- Stress is an interesting reactivator given that both of the major stress response axes (HPA axis, autonomic nervous system (ANS)) are impaired in ME/CFS.
- Despite EBV’s connection to infectious mononucleosis, cancer, autoimmune diseases, ME/CFS and now long COVID, the antivirals used to treat it are not very effective and better ones are needed.
- The findings – some from very good studies – that an EBV subset exists in long COVID should be catnip for the NIH RECOVER program. RECOVER was designed to methodically and rigorously chase down leads, and come to definitive conclusions.
- If RECOVER really takes EBV on, we should rather quickly learn much about the impact EBV is doing, why people with long COVID – and likely people with ME/CFS – are so susceptible to it, and ultimately learn how to effectively treat it. That could be a huge benefit for long COVID and ME/CFS.
The fact that the EBV findings were associated with fatigue and neurocognitive symptoms was not surprising given that these symptoms are common in infectious mononucleosis (usually associated with an EBV infection) and in ME/CFS. The authors also noted the now very strong EBV connection with another very fatiguing illness – multiple sclerosis.
While two EBV antibodies were associated with neurocognitive and fatigue in long COVID, none of the EBV antibodies were associated with gastrointestinal-long COVID. Instead, gut symptoms were more prominent in people who had been hospitalized or had a high basal metabolic index (BMI – were overweight).
The only factor that was associated with cardiopulmonary symptoms was being hospitalized. Those symptoms were clearly fading over time as they were the only symptom that was being reduced after 100 days.
The biggest shocker was that having a prior CMV infection was associated with not having neurocognitive long COVID, and was almost associated with not having long COVID (>5 symptoms) (p<.057).
Resurrecting EBV
The authors noted that past studies had found high amounts of EBV reactivation in the acute stages of long COVID in hospitalized patients. Their results showed that EBV reactivation was causing problems even in non-hospitalized long-COVID patients. They stated that “the study confirmed that a connection between EBV reactivation and long COVID exists”.
EBV has become quite a thing in long COVID. It took less than a year for it to start popping up in long-COVID studies. A major March 2022 study that pegged an EBV reactivation subset was followed by a June 2022 study that found 2/3rds of long-COVID patients showed signs of EBV reactivation. Iwasaki’s major August 2022 study was the next to uncover a significant EBV subset. Not long afterward, an Australian group linked EBV reactivation in the throat to long-COVID fatigue.
EBV reactivation is a major concern in diseases with states of severe immunodeficiency and it can be triggered in many ways. Immunosuppressants, cancer treatments, autoimmune diseases, hormonal changes, and a coronavirus infection can all prompt EBV to emerge from slumber, rev its engines up, and start producing new virions. A recent study seemed to nail down EBV as the cause of multiple sclerosis, but evidence is emerging that EBV may be implicated in other autoimmune diseases. A recent paper, for instance, suggests that EBV may trigger rheumatoid arthritis.
Because EBV reactivates in response to stress, it seems like the perfect virus for a disease with impairments in both of the major stress responses (HPA axis, autonomic nervous system (ANS)) like ME/CFS. Given the recent focus on early or innate immune system findings (monocytes/macrophages) in ME/CFS and long COVID, it’s interesting that failures of the innate immune system may pave the way for EBV reactivation.
Even without the long-COVID and ME/CFS connection, EBV is a big deal. It was the first virus to get its complete genome sequenced (congratulations!) and is purportedly responsible for hundreds of thousands of cancer deaths every year. The available antivirals were not developed to stop EBV, though, and are not particularly effective at doing so. Nor have EBV vaccines been developed. I was told that at least one newer, more effective EBV drug has been developed but hadn’t received much interest until EBV showed up in long COVID.
The Future
RECOVER was reportedly designed to produce definitive results.
One would think that the Epstein-Barr virus has shown up enough in enough really good studies for the RECOVER Initiative to take note. RECOVER, thus far, has pretty much failed miserably with its initial set of clinical trials, but the EBV situation is different. Theoretically, RECOVER should excel here.
As Dr. Koroshetz explained, RECOVER was designed to methodically and rigorously chase down leads, and come to definitive conclusions. That’s a recipe for efficiency and movement and it’s the antidote to the situation we have in ME/CFS: lots of small intriguing studies that leave the field interested but unclear about the impact EBV is having. If RECOVER really takes EBV on, we should rather quickly learn much about the impact EBV is having, why people with long COVID and likely people with ME/CFS are so susceptible to it, and ultimately learn how to effectively treat it.
I’ve been saying for thirty years that EBV is the cause of my M.E.
Thirty years ago a severe case of mono caused my blood to display a large number of “A-typical lymphocytes”. Once EBV gets in to the bone marrow you are buggered. Bone marrow is where immune cells are formed. If that is where EBV is living, of course your immunity will be continually affected.
Cort : Please keep an eye on Bhupesh Prusty’s discovery regarding this matter. It will be released this May. I’d love you to do an article on it. Cheers 🙂
Thanks Wayneo – EBV was the first virus associated with ME/CFS 3 decades ago and it’s clearly going to keep hanging around. I dearly hope we will see large, comprehensive studies from RECOVER and find out what’s really going on.
Looking forward to Prusty’s big reveal!
I am interested in this sort of therapy for Epstein Barr virus.
It has already been used successfully by Professor Michael Pender (Australia) against Multiple Sclorosis:
CAR T-cell therapy involves collecting the patient’s T-cells – a key component of the immune system – and modifying them so that they attack new targets, such as cancer cells, when infused back into the body.
I was diagnosed with EBV in 1990. I had a young, brilliant DO that also diagnosed my ME/CFS. Basically, it stole my life and 33 years later I’m still very ill.
Last year I took a terrible turn for the worse. I have been bedfast many times over the years, but this was different and much worse than ever before. I asked my doctor to test me for EBV and I was positive for a current, active case. I can’t help but wonder if some of us with ME/CFS also suffer from chronic EBV?
It would be a miracle for me if they could develop an anti-viral medication that could control this monster virus, but I learned decades ago not to get my hopes up!
Thank you, Cort, for all that you do for us, and have done for decades! Without you we wouldn’t have a clue what’s going on in our ME/CFS world. You are greatly appreciated!
I would like to bé in study, but i live in Barcelona (Spain). Doctors here are not investigating too much.
I reed your newsletters in my e-mail.
How could I Guess where or Who can study on my body for the benefit off science and future patients?
I had EBV 29 years ago and it felt like it never left me. Eventually doctor after doctor diagnosed me with ME/CFS. Subsequent, occasional blood tests since then for EBV would still be positive. I hope somebody is looking to cure EBV. I think quite a few diseases would then be cured, along with ME/CFS (MS for one….what are the other possibilities?).
Some other possibilities include rheumatoid arthritis and lupus and perhaps a bunch of neurological disorders. It’s also been implicated in some cancers.
This is a link to EBV specific T cell therapy (in this case, for Multiple Sclorosis) if interested. I believe this is the way forward for ME/CFS therapy, along with many other diseases caused by EBV:
https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/124714
Wow, Wayneo – thank you for sharing that study! For anyone who hasn’t clicked the link yet, the two main researchers on the study do a very nice and understandable video summary of the study near the top of the article. I highly recommend watching.
Thank you for this article. I’ve been so sick for 23 years and I believe the start of my illness was from EBV. Then I became bedridden after moving into a condo I bought that I believe had mold in it. I’ve been to countless doctors & specialists and they refuse to test me for EBV or mold. I’m so lost and ready to give up. Do you know how I can find a functional medicine doctor in Ventura, California? Thank you Cort!
That’s good news indeed. Thanks for sharing that!
Yes, EBV and other herpes viruses are a problem with CFS. I believe that shingles particularly is also a huge problem with CFS and Long Covid, and most doctors do not seem to recognize this. Worse, the “variety” of shingles we are seeing now including after getting COVID vaccines (per VAERS database), seems to be more virulent and deadly, attacking the inner ear or eyes, blood vessels and gut. Drs do not only ignore the more subtle shingles symptoms (I was told to get an antibacterial soap for the sores/rashes appearing at various places on my body) but after 10 days of antivirals for obvious cases tell you there is nothing more to be done. This is speculation, but I cannot help but wonder if we have another “engineered” virus perhaps through vaccines that is not only more deadly, but contagious. I read articles where some savvy physicians noted children getting shingles after sitting on their grandparents’ laps, when the grandparents had just had a shingles vaccine! They voiced suspicions and I know of someone who became very sick with chronic shingles (who had already had chickenpox as a child) after being treated by a dentist who had recently had shingles in the ear, and whose father and wife had it in the eyes! Once you get this, it is continually active and moves about the body. Doctors need to take this seriously, not stop treatments after 10 days (or deny treatment if the patient has been sick for more than a week or so), and it need further research… between the two, EBV seems more benign than the horrible virulent shingles we are seeing nowadays…
Wow. I think you’re onto something in your idea the so-called Covid “vaccine” (which they now confess never stopped infection or spread after assuring us otherwise) could have a new, engineered virus inserted into it. And it’s still being recommended to many groups, including pregnant Mothers.
Funny how the Government-Medical-Media complex propagandizes it’s “safe and effective” to this day, isn’t it?
Turns out it never really was about saving human life at all. VAERS is chock full of evidence to the contrary. And we all see what the ClotShot’s done to people we know or know of. Substack features many compelling Authors detailing exactly what the Mainstream Media refuses to cover. As in, the Truth.
Hi Bridget,
Thanks, I should clarify I don’t have a strong opinion on the possibility that shingles is in the COVID 19 vaccine itself or not (COVID 19 vaccine is bad enough on its own, confirmed by so many experts and VAERS as you note), but at minimum it seems clear that the COVID 19 vaccine may have provoked shingles outbreaks possibly due to lowered immunity, perhaps an opportunistic type of infection. I would not be surprised though if the original shingles vaccines (Zostavax), which were live vaccines, created a virulent form of shingles that was much more deadly than shingles that would have occurred naturally in older folks who had had chickenpox as children. And that those shingles infections were contagious! I think that is why we now have a “new” vaccine for shingles but I would not trust any of them. Nor do I see a reason that we had to get “vaccinated” for the shingles virus that had already been living in our bodies if we had chickenpox – made no sense at all! And now young people are getting virulent and deadly shingles (Justin Bieber) which was unheard of. Yes, and all since COVID. Not sure how to connect the dots but seems hard to ignore the possibility of a connection…. we have created Frankensteins which are now exacting their revenge. And again, most doctors seem CLUELESS about how to help their patients with these chronic cases!
Now you’ve got me wondering if the past 33 years of misery could have been avoided if ANY of the doctors back then had decided to DO something about the EBV diagnosis, or any of them since – and gotten rid of it, even temporarily.
No antivirals. No further tests. No intelligence applied to why or how to get rid of it – just 33 years of neglect (and minimal painkillers).
What a waste.
Wonder if that’s true now – get rid of the EBV, and let the body heal.
Alicia,
Something worth investigating is the use of ADHD meds for the fatigue from EBV lethargy. I was diagnosed roughly 12 years ago after a 15 year battle to figure out what was wrong (despite the curse of being labeled as “depressed” when in fact I felt sick. It took me a while to get a few doctors on board with the idea. It has helped immensely – especially for the days that feel like a mountain is on top of me. Combining it with Tramadol was also a game changer. Not for pain relief but for mood stabilization. Want to know the highest rated “antidepressant” of all. It’s not an antidepressant; it’s Tramadol. I wish you the best.
Thanks, David we have a blog on stimulants coming up 🙂
So glad that worked for you.
I did all that years ago – tried stimulants for ten months, went to the doctor monthly for the prescription, dropped it off at the pharmacy, went to pick it up… Filled in their stupid paperwork…
If there was the tiniest bit of success (and I tried hard to see it), it was never worth the extra effort to get the meds and deal with the medical profession for them, for me. But some people have had results.
The vaccine activated EBV in my son, he got mono within a couple of weeks of his second dose. He got covid about 9 months later and now has CFS.
Very interesting. Could this be what is happening in people who can’t tolerate the vaccines? It would seem to make sense…Check this out
COVID-19 infection and vaccines: potential triggers of Herpesviridae reactivation
“In addition to SARS-CoV-2 infection, all corresponding vaccines approved to date in Europe appear capable of inducing herpesvirus reactivation.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36803914/
Honestly, great theory. Prusty is working along these lines, we all have stories of EBV, and this would make complete sense for a vaccine cause of CFS.
I personally have been devastated by the Pfizer booster, but not by earlier Moderna ones, 7 months and counting. I already had severe ME/CFS. I see the paper shows a huge number of HHV-6 reactivations for the Pfizer vaccine.
My son who was College Baseball player recently joined US AIrforce and was forced to take both Phizer fake VAXs then got Covid in July 2022 which activated Epstein Barr that has terrorized his body over a year now. Having recently retired from US Army after 27 years I can’t tell you how pissed I am at our woke Marxist Govt who imposed this on 100s of millions of Americans.
I believe the EBV has manifested into Gulliens Barre either severe neuro complications. Have him home from AF now seeking our own treatments because AF following useless FDA do nothing protocol
I’m so sorry to hear about your son. Believe me we understand. I came down with ME/CFS more than 40 years ago when I was young and healthy and it has not relaxed its grip.
I wouldn’t blame the vaccines though. If he reacted that badly to COVID, the vaccines probably protected him from an even worse fate. Thats what dozens of scientific studies say. We have stories of young, very healthy people who either died or were left debilitated from COVID or other infections (for which there are no vaccines). That’s just what happens with ME/CFS.
The only good news in all of this is that researchers are looking more and more into EBV and hopefully, we will get some answers – and some treatments. Good luck with your son.
As always, lovely summary Cort and as always EBV is implicated. Lovely to see some of Tim Henrich’s work come out, do you know what the current state of his work is? It seemed like he had some of the means to have a closer look at EBV, including molecular mimicry and a reactivated virus that is not reproducing but still spitting out particles. He also wanted to have a look at “meaningful” tissue samples.
I don’t know he was trying to do that – exciting stuff. That’s the kind of in-depth stuff we need. That Henrich-Peluso-Deeks team is one to keep a close eye on. I’ll have more on this later but they hope to do a series of small intensive clinical trials in long COVID to a) better understand what’s going on and b) see if they can find something that works. They’re polar opposites from RECOVER which is being ultra-conservative.
This feels like a relatively(!) straightforward and high value target for treatment development and trials.
Would also attract funding from beyond our field and an easier narrative to tell than many competing theories.
Will also be awaiting the Prusty paper findings!
“attract funding from beyond our field ” – my big hope…
I just don’t buy it.
just speaking personally, I came down with CFS 3 years before I ever got infected with EBV.
Also, they don’t go any further than saying that the reactivation of EBV is associated with the development of long covid. So it could well be correlation rather than causation. It may be causative, but the EBV isn’t perpetuating the illness
Wake me up when the precise neuroinflammatory explanation of the illness is confirmed!
Half the long COVID cohort had evidence of EBV problems – leaving the other half with other issues.
Yeah, this was a correlational study, absolutely. If you were to take it as causational, you’d have to conclude that CMV infection is actually *preventive* of neuro-cognitive symptoms of long COVID. A more plausible explanation is whatever is causing neuro-cognitive symptoms in long COVID is also reactivating EBV in opposite direction of CMV.
They should introduce EBV antibodies to mice and see if they develop LC/MECFS symptoms. That should settle whether EBV causes MECFS for once and for all, so that we won’t have to debate it for another 30 years.
You sound skeptical like me?
Just to be clear, I think viruses, including EBV, are usually the trigger for CFS. But viruses do not perpetuate the illness. A neuroimmune / neuroinflammatory dysfunction does.
Yep, mono definitely can cause post-viral syndrome. The EBV theory in question though, is that the antibodies to reactivated EBV cause (fatigue and) brain fog. Which still is a possibility, except that there is no causational study, only correlational ones.
I am fully invested into the herpes reactivation hypothesis for two reasons. I experience ME episodes so similar to herpes simplex 1 reactivations that I was convinced from the first episode that I had a herpes problem of a new kind.
During ME episodes I have a mild fever, flu-like feeling of being ill, a thore throat and stuffy nose next to heat and pressure in the area of eyes and frontal lobe of brain, and of course PEM and cognitive and a bunch of the other common problems but not all of them.
What then corroborated my reasoning further was that I got prescribed Aciclovir on speck and had a full stop to the inflammation process most vividly felt in the brain one hour after taking the first 800mg tablet. After a two weeks cure with this anti-viral I was non-remittant for many months. Aciclovir is known to have good activity against HHV6 even when there are other anti-virals that are considered to be more effective.
When you read Prof. Dr. Scheibenbogen’s summer 2022 overview on ME/CFS (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00108-022-01369-x) you realise that except for PEM and declining capability of energy production the patients do not necessarily have many more symptoms in common. To me it looks as there were at least two subgroups in ME.
This gives me reason to think that maybe there are different mechanisms, maybe variations of the same mechanism, or similar mechanisms connected to different retroviruses/immunodefeciency.
I agree with you that the brain question is very important in the group of those who report “headaches of a new kind” – brain inflammation of a yet not understood kind. This is the group that I belong to as well. But I don’t agree with you when you claim that the virus reactivation is not important and can’t be connected to the brain inflammation.
Based on Bhupesh Prusty’s research my story goes along the line of this: Until we have an even better understanding I think that during ME episodes (With pacing I have them down from three months to a day and a half) I have HHV6 reactivation of an abortive kind that doesn’t leads up to a replication of the virus. And maybe this could be explained by an immuno defect. The HHV6 miRNA that Prusty could detect and observe to disregulate mitochondrial processes and destroy mitochondria eventually is most harmful in the areas of the organism that have the highest consumption of ATP – the brain!
I researched a bit on genetically induced mitochondrial dysfunction and the experts there describe that the patients typically have problems with eye movement and brain frontal lobe because of the comparatively highest demands of ATP for the processes playing out in these areas.
As I said I have episodes now down to flare-ups really. So my problem is less and less the prevention of reinflammations but the healing of the frontal lobe and eyes area. Most importantly I learned that I have to fully wave on fast sugars. Because they induce an overstimulation of the injured area in the frontal lobe – just as too much sun light does.
…fast sugars – I sent my comment too fast.
This is what I am invested in at the moment. And what’s great about it, is that this understanding actually helps me to manage my health better than without.
Now I am looking forward to Bhupesh Prusty’s talk at the Berlin ME/CFS conference tomorrow.
EBV can reside in the bone marrow (ie Where immune cells are created). Once EBV “changes” your immune cells, who know what it does? ME/CFS is caused by many factors, and an ongoing EBV infection is one of them. Wishing you better health.
What an interesting idea. They would have to find mice that were susceptible to EBV though – as we saw about 50% of the long people in this trial did not appear to have problems with it.
I think there is a mouse model for EBV. They could test the theory if they could somehow create the mouse version of the antibodies. Or monkey version perhaps? It doesn’t have to be 100%. If the introduction of EBV antibodies cause fatigue/fog more than the placebo, that could be enough of a proof.
I’m thinking mice (like humans) with low CD-8 cells. CD-8 cells suppress the EBV infection.
I suffered two major EBV infections in my life. One was when I in my late 20s and the other was in my late 40s. (I’m 60 now.) Both led to years of CFS-ME.
I think I had Covid in August of 2022. All I know is out of the blue I suffered from overwhelming fatigue that felt like EBV. I was beyond exhausted for two days with no other symptoms. I was in that bad territory of CFS-ME once again. Then, as if nothing had happened, I was fine.
I’ve been on prophylactic Ivermectin since 2020. This remarkable drug is said not only to be antiviral but also anti-cancer. All I know is I’m still astonished my terrible, deep fatigue resolved in 48 hours, given my history.
Had we not been mislead about the effectiveness and decades worth of safe use of Ivermectin, I suspect there’d be a lot less human suffering in the world because of Covid. I urge everyone to check out the FLCCC website for more information on IVM use and other helpful strategies for Covid treatment, including ideas for long-haulers:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Ivermectin looked like the cat’s meow for awhile but it hasn’t panned out in studies and its studies we use to confirm or reject doctor’s claims.
The medical world did not ignore Ivermectin – in fact, over a dozen studies have been done – some of them very large. While I don’t think we knw the final answer thus far the studies suggest it didn’t prevent death, reduce hospital admissions, reduce symptoms, or help with viral clearance.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35726131/
Ivermectin for treating COVID-19 in outpatient settings with asymptomatic or mild disease Ivermectin plus standard of care compared to standard of care plus/minus placebo probably has little or no effect on all-cause mortality at day 28 (RR 0.77, 95% CI 0.47 to 1.25; 6 trials, 2860 participants; moderate-certainty evidence) and little or no effect on quality of life,
Ivermectin may have little or no effect on clinical worsening, assessed by admission to hospital or death within 28 days (RR 1.09, 95% CI 0.20 to 6.02; 2 trials, 590 participants; low-certainty evidence); on clinical improvement, assessed by the number of participants with all initial symptoms resolved up to 14 days on serious adverse events (RR 2.27, 95% CI 0.62 to 8.31; 5 trials, 1502 participants; low-certainty evidence); on any adverse events during the trial period (RR 1.24, 95% CI 0.87 to 1.76; 5 trials, 1502 participants; low-certainty evidence); and on viral clearance at day 7.
Hmmm.
Our Government, including the CDC, the FDA and Science himself, Dr. Fauci, now admit the Covid Jabs had no efficacy in terms of preventing infection or spread but only AFTER numerous threats, job losses, mandates and other propagandizing efforts involving an obedient Media which persuaded (via false PCR tests and a terror campaign) 70% of the American public to take them. Now the ClotShot Victims face turbo-cancers, among many other documented injuries, let alone sudden and unexpected death.
We all know people with serious injuries from the vaxx. We all know of people dropping dead in our midst who took it. Many of us have heard the testimony of Embalmers around the world and seen the bizarre fibrous Clots being pulled out of the dead SINCE the rollout of the “safe and effective” vaxxes in 2021. Or are you still saying “correlation does not equal causation” at this late date?
There was an agenda, and it needed to succeed. Sadly, it did to a large degree.
So it’s no surprise such studies as you cite were actually designed to ensure the failure of Ivermectin, such as administering it too late in the course of the infection or giving a dose not appropriate for the subject’s weight, etc. They had a shot to push and wanted nothing to get in its way. They succeeded in lying to and harming millions of people around the world all to achieve their sinister goal. But, hey, you took the shot and believed it was your only hope. You’re definitely not alone. Many are finally realizing they were deceived. And they’re rightfully enraged at being lied to and targeted by what’s actually not a useful, efficacious Vaccine but a Bioweapon.
Are you aware of the massive spike in miscarriages, stillbirths and infant injuries and deaths since the jab rollout in 2021?Check out Dr. Naomi Wolf for details on the Pfizer documents it tried TO HIDE for 75 years but was forced to release after a Federal Judge ruled the public has a right to know. They detail the unimaginable loss of innocent human life thanks to the Covid vaxxes:
https://open.substack.com/pub/naomiwolf/p/pfizer-fda-dr-walensky-knew-fetuses?r=f9vg3&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
But getting back to Ivermectin, I think it’s time to wake up now, Cort. Despite what you’ve been sold, Ivermectin has saved millions of lives from the Covid infection around the globe. Our Government did its best to make sure people didn’t learn the truth about IVM, it’s worldwide use and blocked people here from even having the legal right and access to try it:
“A growing evidence base of dozens of studies around the world demonstrates ivermectin’s unique and highly potent ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication and aid in recovery from COVID-19. Based on this evidence, and on first-hand clinical observations, the FLCCC recommends its use, as part of a combination therapy, in all stages of COVID-19. View our protocols for more information on specific strategies.
For comprehensive information on ivermectin please refer to our Review of the Emerging Evidence Supporting the Use of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19 and the included references.”
https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin/
I haven’t been “sold” anything Bridget – unless you think relying on scientific studies – constitutes being “sold” or that scientific studies or science itself are part of some vast conspiracy – I don’t know. As imperfect as they are they’re our best source of information.
As to Dr Fauci admitting those things….I’m sorry that’s just hogwash. You can choose what you want to rely on. I chose to rely on the results of scientific studies and you’re choosing to rely on something else. Just know that it’s not science.
If you want to check out what the scientific studies say about mask or vaccine efficacy go to PubMed – which contains all the scientific citations – and search for mask or vaccine efficacy and you will see what the studies have found.
Just came across this today. Another tragic side effect of what was sold to everyone as a “safe and effective” vaccine. The reports of exactly how unsafe, injurious and even worse these shots really are just keeps growing:
“ Individuals with COVID-19 vaccination had a higher risk of all forms of retinal vascular occlusion in 2 years after vaccination… The risk.. significantly increased during the first 2 weeks after vaccination and persisted for 12 weeks. Additionally, individuals with first and second dose of BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 had significantly increased risk of retinal vascular occlusion 2 years following vaccination, while no disparity was detected between brand and dose of vaccines.”
I’m sorry for those who were wickedly deceived and took it, I really am:
https://open.substack.com/pub/lionessofjudah/p/retinal-vascular-occlusion-after?r=f9vg3&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
A few other points. There is also an ongoing debate about how the people have been vaccinated. There are different techniques for this. One of them is to aspirate. This is interesting because some experts say that if this doesn’t happen you can inject the vaccine into a vein instead of the muscle. With all its consequences. The substances from the vaccine then enter the entire body down the bloodstream. With the mRNA technique, your own cells start producing spikes and you get an inflammatory response in organs where you don’t want it.
In addition, contamination can occur during the production process of vaccines. In Japan, for example, it was discovered that the vaccines contained contaminants. Japan then withdrew 1.6 million vaccines. In Europe, no samples are taken from delivered batches to check this. They receive samples directly from the manufacturer itself.
I do believe in science, but not all scientists. The pharmaceutical companies in particular must be examined critically. The same goes for Pfizer’s research. We always talk about relative risk reduction which is much higher than absolute risk reduction. For example, that study did not look at all at the occurrence of hospitalizations and whether it could still spread the virus after you had been vaccinated. Also, this study has never been independently replicated. My conclusion and that of many experts is that this mRNA vaccine came on the market much too quickly. The problem was that they had to make a decision quickly because corona was spreading. I get that. But they made far too big statements about this mRNA vaccine.
They also talk about preventing death. How many people have to be vaccinated to save 1 life? Are healthy young people more likely to have problems from vaccinations or from the virus itself? Etc..
Much of the so-called science that Cort refers to is based on computational models. It uses assumptions. If you change 1 assumption, the outcome is completely different. So a ‘scientific statement’ based on mathematical models is also just an opinion -:)
There seems to be a strong connection with vaccinations and medical problems that we see a lot now. These experts need more data to demonstrate a causal relationship. And they don’t get it! Publications pointing in that direction will not be published in PubMed. That’s not how science is supposed to work. This gives a one-sided picture and is a pitfall. Science should be transparent.
Still, I think the corona virus is potentially dangerous as well. More research is also needed for the long-term effects.
All valid points. It’s interesting no autopsies are being commissioned by Federal or Local Health Officials (and results being made public anonymously, of course) in a deeper, more tailored way to see what, if any, role the Covid vaxxes play in these growing “sudden and unexpected” deaths, especially of all the young, healthy people dying in their sleep, or on the sports field or even in the classroom. The newly created “Sudden Adult Death” syndrome after the jab rollout is yet another in an already long and still growing line of remarkable coincidences.
And lest anyone think because you’re unvaxxed, like me, we’re somehow safe, sorry but no cigar. Researchers are finding our blood, at this point, is no different than the jabbed. The Pfizer documents admit transmission (or shedding) of the injections via direct contact with body fluids and even normal respiration occurred in its studies it desperately tried to bury for 75 years. So we’re all in the same boat now, and it’s reminiscent of the Titanic.
But the good news is many conscientious, moral Doctors and Researchers are studying ways for both the jabbed and the non-jabbed to find verifiable methods to clean the blood. If curious readers want to find out more about their work, Substack cites like Dr. Anna’s Newsletter and WMC Research are good places to start.
There are suggested strategies using Nutraceuticals like Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase, for example, and other Alternative Medicine approaches people are trying to keep their blood from slowly and silently clotting. No guarantees, of course, but seeing people are dropping dead even as energetic, little Children or as healthy young Adults in the prime of life, I’m willing to fight like my life depends on it.
We’re all human and we’ve all been deceived many times before. Turning away from our problems usually doesn’t fix them, though. Seeing we all know we have to die at some point, why not be bold and dare to look into this?
As the Jesus says, “…the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)
Sorry about that typo in my last line. I meant to say, “As Jesus says, ‘…and the truth shall make you free.’” (John 8:32)
I wish there was an edit and delete option here.
Health Rising does try to focus on the science – we’re very science-based so when you say, Bridget, that autopsies are either not being done or are being hidden, I go to the science and if you care to do that, that is to see if research studies have looked at COVID-19 autopsies – you will literally find over 50 autopsy studies have been done and since I stopped counting its possible that hundreds have been donee. This no surprise – any new disease that causes a lot of deaths is going to trigger a lot of autopsy studies.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=covid+19+autopsy
A warning- the idea that the vaccines are somehow getting into unvaccinated people’s blood and Sudden Death Syndrome – this is QANON-type stuff – and that’s not what HR is about, and I don’t want to spend the time and my limited energy on refuting things like that. Nattokinase and things like that are fine. The other stuff isn’t.
My definition of science is peer-reviewed statistically significant studies that make it into scientific journals. They are not perfect, they can certainly make mistakes – and I agree they missed the problems that vaccines have created in some people with ME/CFS – but they’re the closest we can get to what is actually happening.
The reason we do statistically based placebo-controlled studies is because they’ve been found to be so much more effective anecdotal reports, intuition, reading the tea leaves, whatever. 🙂
https://matchyourbatch.org/
Here’s a site you can check to learn about any potential issues involving your vaccine batches.
I am not firmly and entirely in the anti-COVID vax camp, with a few caveats. One, my previously healthy and vibrant 83yo mother-in-law experienced EBV reactivation after getting her first booster shot last spring, and she has had awful fatigue on par with my long COVID fatigue ever since. It feels like her remaining years with us will be plagued essentially with this kind of ME/CFS, and I don’t know why, but I’m even sadder about her being in this state than I am myself at age 47. I guess I feel there is still time for me to have hope of effective treatment in my lifetime.
Two, and someone else mentioned something similar in the comments, the long COVID social media groups are rampant with vax-injury stories that mirror what we virus-infected long haulers are saying. A long hauler friend of mine even has a previously healthy 20yo son who is having avascular necrosis (bone death) of his hip bones after getting the vaccine. I am no conspiracy theorist, but the government and the media definitely are not being forthcoming about the numbers of folks suffering post-vax, nor about the types of events these sufferers are having. No more shots for me or my husband for the time being. I’ve seen and heard too much.
Unrelated to the vax, I’m still confused about what the researchers are saying. Is EBV reactivated and causing havoc, but NOT a live virus? All of my EBV panels have been off the charts high since 2020 and I still don’t really know what this means. My ID doc has had me on first famciclovir and now valacyclovir since 2020. It hasn’t changed my blood levels or my symptoms, but I did come across this study that seems to indicate it’s helpful to stay on one of these antivirals to tamp down B cell activity. Here it is: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2772668/
Lerner used to do very long-term antiviral trials (like a year) in his ME/CFS patients and he could get some good results. HR has a couple of Lerner recovery stories.
I think that either the vaccine studies missed things like fatigue and ME/CFS because they weren’t looking for them or those kinds of reactions are more concentrated in ME/CFS. It’s a shame we never got an ME/CFS vaccine study that assessed herpesvirus reactivation! Health Rising’s polls suggested that about 20% of people had a rough time with the vaccines.
The vaccine studies did examine all sorts of diseases and conditions and with the exception of a very rare blood clotting issues in young people in one of he vaccines didn’t find anything. It was their ability to pick up that very rare problem and acknowledge that is, to my mind the best evidence that they were indeed looking for issues and reported them when they found them.
Hello, in 2008, while working as a nurse, I was given the intranasal avian flu vaccine.
By 2009, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, then with psoriatic arthritis. By 2010, I could no longer work and have been disabled since. I also have been tested and was found that was exposed to EBV, at some point. I’m still suffering and living a very painful and substandard life.
Can you get reinfected with EBV, or are there different variants like with COVID?
I don’t know if there are different variants that you could get reinfected with – an interesting question.
Super interesting study!
It would be so simple to find out if EBV (or HHVs in general) are the “drivers” behind the clinical picture of ME/CFS (as postulated by Maria Ariza : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7912523/ )) We would just have to measure the HHV dUTPases in ME/CFS patients longitudinally on good days and during PEM. By now there is enough evidence to show that the HHV dUTPases can cause :
• Immune dysfunction : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23894549/
• Neuroinflammation : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31040055/
• Endothelial dysfunction : https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0889159107001705
You don´t need to be a rocket scientist to put the dots together.
For your information, Cort & others….
About Atara Biotherapeutics, Inc.
Atara Biotherapeutics, Inc. (@Atarabio) is a pioneer in T-cell immunotherapy leveraging its novel allogeneic EBV T-cell platform to develop transformative therapies for patients with serious diseases including solid tumors, hematologic cancers, and autoimmune disease. With our lead program receiving marketing authorization in Europe, Atara is the most advanced allogeneic T-cell immunotherapy company and intends to rapidly deliver off-the-shelf treatments to patients with high unmet medical need. Our platform leverages the unique biology of EBV T cells and has the capability to treat a wide range of EBV-associated diseases, or other serious diseases through incorporation of engineered CARs (chimeric antigen receptors) or TCRs (T-cell receptors). Atara is applying this one platform, which does not require TCR or HLA gene editing, to create a robust pipeline including: tab-cel for Epstein-Barr virus positive post-transplant lymphoproliferative disease (EBV+ PTLD) and other EBV-driven diseases; ATA188, a T-cell immunotherapy targeting EBV antigens as a potential treatment for multiple sclerosis; and multiple next-generation chimeric antigen receptor T-cell (CAR-T) immunotherapies for both solid tumors and hematologic malignancies. Improving patients’ lives is our mission and we will never stop working to bring transformative therapies to those in need. Atara is headquartered in Southern California. For additional information about the company, please visit atarabio.com and follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn
I didn’t know–or remember– what somatization means.
So I googled it:
“Dr. Boerner: Somatization describes the process by which a person can experience a physical symptom of their emotional state.”
So imo the PHQ measures bodily effects from emotions. As distinct from physical symptoms from a physical cause.
as noted in this blog that the PHQ measures somatization. 🙁
“They used two different symptom assessments to assess new symptoms: the CDC’s 32 COVID-19 symptom list and the Patient Health Questionnaire (PHQ) somatic symptom scale.”