Geoff’s Narration
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“Endothelial dysfunction and herpesvirus activity are two characteristics of ME/CFS pathology that have yet to be officially linked. ” The authors
EBV is associated with many diseases: could it be contributing to the blood flow problems in ME/CFS and long COVID as well?
THE GIST
- Herpesviruses have been mentioned in connection with chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) for almost 40 years. It wasn’t until coagulation and blood vessel issues showed up in long COVID that clotting became a significant subject of interest in ME/CFS. Could the old and the new somehow be connected?
- No one has ever connected herpesvirus with reduced blood flows to the brain or the muscles in these diseases but on the face of it, ask: why not? The Epstein-Barr herpesvirus (EBV) has, after all, a large reach. Besides infectious mononucleosis, ME/CFS, and long COVID, the big bad bug – which our bodies cannot get rid of – is associated with 7 autoimmune diseases and a wide variety of cancers.
- Most doctors focus on EBV reactivation, EBV doesn’t need to replicate to affect our cells. A landmark 2018 paper found even while EBV is latent in a cell it appears to be able to rearrange its genes to put the person at risk for a range of autoimmune diseases.
- The main focus of this paper is on the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels. These highly active and versatile cells help with gas exchange, nourishment, and waste clearance, and are key inflammation regulators: they keep things moving and the blood vessels healthy. Any endothelial cell problems, the authors assert, will probably show up in problems in the blood vessels themselves and ultimately in many systems across the body.
- The authors show how latent herpesvirus infections could be damaging the endothelial cells and triggering clotting. Theyt propose that a herpesvirus infection of the blood vessels leading to the brain as well as the blood-brain barrier could be contributing to the cognitive issues in ME/CFS and long COVID. Indeed studies indicate that damage to the endothelium has been associated with cognitive problems in a wide variety of diseases.
- A few brain autopsies suggest that herpesviruses or proteins associated with them may have found their way to the brains of people with ME/CFS. (Click here to find out how to donate your brain to the NIH’s Brain Donor Project.)
- The authors proposed ways to determine if that old bugaboo in ME/CFS – the herpesviruses – are indeed affecting blood flows. They asserted that “a more refined focus on herpesviruses and endothelial function and health in ME/CFS (and Long COVID) is warranted.”
- Next Up – Interest in EBV and the blood vessels is continuing to grow, and how. Coming up: more evidence of blood vessel dysfunction, “Could natural anticoagulants help?”, a new EBV-focused hypothesis, and the possibility of new EBV drugs.
Pretorius, Kell, and Nunes admit their hypothesis is “novel” but think they might. The Pretorius-Kell South African group has certainly not been shy about their hypothesis that blood clots (coagulation) and blood vessel damage to the endothelial cells play a significant role in both long COVID and chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). Since 2021, they’ve been prolific – publishing 18 papers on these subjects, including five on ME/CFS.
Now they’re attempting to match up an old bogeyman in ME/CFS – herpesviruses – with a new one in ME/CFS and long COVID – the blood vessels. Their latest, “Herpesvirus Infection of Endothelial Cells as a Systemic Pathological Axis in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome“, with Jean Nunes from the University of Liverpool, proposes that the mighty Epstein-Barr virus might be doing something no one has suspected before: whacking the blood vessels of people with ME/CFS and/or long COVID.
One has to, on the face of it, ask: why not? The Epstein-Barr herpesvirus (EBV) has, after all, a large reach. Besides infectious mononucleosis, ME/CFS, and long COVID, the big bad bug – which our bodies cannot get rid of – is associated with 7 autoimmune diseases and a wide variety of cancers.
Could it also be affecting the blood vessels?
A Link Between the Old and New? Herpesviruses and the Blood Vessels
Could herpesvirus infection of thin layer of cells lining the blood vessels – the endothelium – be impacting blood flows?
The idea that EBV affects the blood vessels may be new, but it’s not exactly a long shot. While EBV primarily infects epithelial and B cells, it has long been known to be able to infect the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels, including those in the blood-brain barrier and those found in the brain. A 2000 study suggested that EBV’s dUTPase protein may be stimulating monocytes/macrophages in contact with endothelial cells to produce inflammation in the blood vessels. Other studies have found that HHV-6 can infect the blood vessels as well.
Recent studies have shown a herpesvirus need not be actively replicating to affect cell functioning, but it has to establish latency in them; i.e. infect them and establish a non-replicating viral reservoir. While both herpesviruses can infect the endothelial cells, only HHV-6, thus far, has been shown to establish latency in them. The authors believe, though, that the evidence warrants assuming that EBV can infect and establish latency in endothelial cells.
While doctors and researchers commonly look for signs of viral reactivation, establishing latency may be the more important factor when it comes to long-lived chronic diseases like ME/CFS, FM, and long COVID.
A 2018 study found that even when EBV was latent (not replicating), it can still promote the development of cancer, and affect gene expression – thus increasing the risk of autoimmune diseases, increase oxidative stress, and increase the production of the IL-6 cytokine that recent studies suggest may play a significant role in ME/CFS and long COVID, and more.
In a 2018 paper, about which John Harley, the lead author, stated “I’ve been a co-author in almost 500 papers. This one is more important than all of the rest put together.”, EBV, was found, in its latent stage, to turn on genes associated with a wide variety of autoimmune diseases. The senior author, Matthew Weirauch, said the finding provided hope that taking down EBV could provide help for many diseases.
“This same cast of characters is a villain in multiple immune-related diseases…So if we could develop therapies to stop them from doing this, then it would help multiple diseases.”
It’s clear that the virus is still highly active and is tweaking the cell in various ways during latency. For it to be causing damage to the blood vessels, though, it has to produce proteins that negatively affect them. The authors show several herpesvirus-produced proteins (Epstein–Barr Nuclear Antigens (EBNAs), LMP-1, U-94) can fit that bill.
The Focus
The main focus of this paper is on the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels. These highly active and versatile cells help with gas exchange, nourishment, and waste clearance, and are key inflammation regulators: they keep things moving and the blood vessels healthy. Any endothelial cell problems, the authors assert, will probably show up in problems in the blood vessels themselves and ultimately in many systems across the body.
In short, the blood vessels provide a way to explain or help explain many of the symptoms found and the many different systems affected in these diseases.
Blood Flows
In the end, it could all be about blood flows (or the lack of them) to parts of the body. Low blood flows mean that the essential energy molecule – oxygen – is not getting to the muscles, brain, etc.
Impaired blood flows have not been a major emphasis in herpesvirus research, but the authors make the case that EBV may be impacting blood flows to the body and the brain, by pointing to several isolated studies suggesting ways herpesviruses may be able to damage the endothelium. They highlight several ways (damage to glycocalyx, fibrosis, cellular junctions) herpesviruses may be playing “contributory roles” to blood vessel problems in these diseases and propose that deeper investigations of vascular tissues be performed.
Coagulation
They seem to be on a bit firmer ground with the idea that herpesviruses may be contributing to the clotting issues in ME/CFS and long COVID. An EBV infection of endothelial cells appears to be able to promote a variety of clotting factors (von-Willebrand factor (VWF), VEGF, and platelet endothelial cell adhesion molecule-1 (PECAM) levels). One interesting study found that HHV-6 infection produced blood clots in the smallest blood vessels that are similar to those found in ME/CFS and long COVID.
Some evidence suggests herpesviruses may be able to affect the blood-brain-barrier.
Cognition and the Brain
We know that low blood flows to the brain are present in these diseases, but we don’t know why, and multiple possibilities (autonomic nervous system problems, damage to the endothelial cells linking blood vessels, microclots, low blood volumes) exist.
Now we have a new option – herpesvirus infection of the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels leading to the brain and herpesvirus infection of the blood-brain barrier. Studies outside ME/CFS and long COVID indicate that damage to the endothelium has been associated with cognitive problems in a wide variety of diseases. The authors, in fact, referred to a systematic review that concluded that an “intrinsic” relationship existed between endothelial cell dysfunction and cognitive impairment.
We don’t know much about what, if anything, herpesviruses are doing in the brains of people with ME/CFS and long COVID – we need more autopsy studies for that – but two small studies have found HHV-6 and/or the dUTPase protein produced by EBV in the central nervous systems of people with ME/CFS. They’ve been found in promising areas, as well (the choroid plexus secretes cerebral spinal fluid (CSF), hippocampus and amygdala – part of the limbic system, and dorsal root ganglia – sensory signal processor).
More brain autopsies would be a great help in helping to figure out what is going on in the brains of these diseases. If you have ME/CFS or fibromyalgia it’s easy to donate your brain to the NIH’s Brain Donor Project. Find out more about that in the blog below and click here to go to the Brain Donor Project and here to begin the pre-registration process.
The dUTPase protein produced by EBV provides an interesting possibility. It’s produced prior to EBV replication, is found in many people with ME/CFS, appears to be able to open the blood-brain barrier, and once inside the brain, seems almost to be guaranteed to cause neuroinflammation.
Last year, a UCSF exercise study found that EBV reactivation was associated with a trend towards reduced exercise capacity in long COVID.
Herpesviruses can clearly impact people with ME/CFS and/or long COVID. Could they be doing that, in part, by affecting blood flows?
The Way Forward
“We presented the idea that a herpesvirus infection of ECs might be an important, over looked phenomenon that can, in part, account for the pathophysiology and symptoms of ME/CFS and, potentially, Long COVID.” The authors
A herpesvirus blood vessel connection in these diseases is unproven but possible. How to show that herpesvirus infections are indeed affecting blood flows? The authors proposed starting with checking the endothelial cells – particularly from the brain’s microvascular blood vessels – as well as the smooth muscle cells lining the blood vessels – for herpesvirus infections.
In the end, they asserted that “a more refined focus on herpesviruses and endothelial function and health in ME/CFS (and Long COVID) is warranted.”
Next Up – Interest in EBV and the blood vessels is continuing to grow, and how. Coming up: more evidence of blood vessel dysfunction, “Could natural anticoagulants help?”, a new EBV-focused hypothesis, and the possibility of new EBV drugs.
Why? …after 40 years of pain and suffering, hasn’t any across the board treatment been rolled out ?
Why ?..after 40 years, are they only still talking about it
Do “they” not get that this ruin lives on so many different levels
People get divorced,
Loose friendships
Become homeless
Loose their life savings
Loose organs
Etc.etc.etc
This should have been a medical emergency 40 years ago but,
” they”,…whoever they are, decided to let people suffer for decades.
It’s undescribable and dispicable!
SHAME on ” them”
I couldn’t agree more. The best years of my life have been robbed. In the case of EBV, because most people can control the virus that it’s not seen as terrible virus. But you are right…..It’s been put in the “Too hard basket” for too long. It is destroying lives.
PS.
He also told me 28 years ago that ME is an auto immune disease that causes ‘brain inflammation’ (along with chronic fatigue, body inflammation & pain, blood flow problems, POTS, etc.)
AND, that in Australia both EBV + CMV (Cytomegalovirus) = ME.
In China it is EBV + Hepatitis B,
And in the USA, I am guessing it is EBV + HHV6.
The common denominator in all being Epstein Barr Virus (EBV) – herpes virus.
The ME/CFS saga is indeed an indictment of an at times ignorant, self-serving medical system that can be ignorant, self-serving, and even cruel. It’s so frustrating.
There is some good news with EBV, though – for the first time I can remember some antivirals are under development.
That’s so true, Cort. And with the antivirals I also agree with you. There are already antivirals against HHV-6b and a increased research effort, I am sure, will also help to find antivirals against the other ones.
I am confindent because if politics, doctors, and researchers take an illness serious like they did with HIV/AIDS or SARS19-Covid then they can roll out new drugs in a reasonable time.
Since HIV is just like the herpes group a retrovirus I am also confident that they will find out the most important things about the damage that herpes viruses can do in latency or abortive replication.
At the same time it’s really important not to forget that the leading researchers into the herpes theory in ME/CFS, Jacqueline Cliff and Eliana Lacerda from two London based institutes have found prove of HHv-6b viral loads in saliva and the loads corresponded to symptom severity.
I hope you keep in mind the new study that their doing where they try to further assess that HHV-6b reactivation is the cause of ME/CFS episodes. In that same study they also look at what’s going on in T-cells because HHV-6b afflicts also this type of immune cells.
https://www.brunel.ac.uk/research/projects/reactivation-of-herpesviruses-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome
I agree with you 100%. Forty years have gone by and they’re still looking at viruses like EBV??? I don’t have a trace of EBV, so at least in my case, it’s NOT that. Where are all of the brilliant researchers and where the heck is the funding for this insidious disease?? We need honest researchers who are willing to go outside of the lines (of the NIH and CDC) to find this pathogen. Enough suffering.
In the original article, a merely theoretical paper, they not only talk about EBV (HHV-4) but also HHV-6b. And it is actually the later type of herpes virus where there is already more evidence that it is at the root of the problem of ME/CFS which the authors do acknowledge.
I don’t understand why Cort talked mainly of EBV here because the paper doesn’t legitimize that.
Actually they didn’t look with enough funding and researchers into the question of the herpes viruses in ME/CFS. And around 2010 they were even given up for some time because their was a researcher who had faked her results when she claimed that she had found out about herpes as the cause of ME/CFS.
After that herpes research in ME/CFS was discredited. Thanks god general viral and herpes research has had a surge because of new technologies with whicht they can research viruses in more detail. And that’s how these theories made it back at the center of ME/CFS research again.
Given that the herpes researchers in ME/CFS are the only ones who have found a hypothesis that they are now able to deliver empirical proof to their research qestions and can deliver tangible results, it can only be a short while that herpes ME/CFS research will go through the roof.
Why has no one ever heard of the retrovirus HIAP-II that was discovered back in the early 90’s? At least a subset of ME/CFS individuals have idiopathic CD4+ T-lymphocytopenia (ICL (otherwise known as non-hiv aids). The individual who discovered this virus is still employed at Tulane University. My attempts to reach him have been futile.
Here is the official patent for this disease:
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO1995031531A1/en
I am about to start a medical trial using a Chinese medicinal product that is an anticoagulant. The product is designed to treat vertigo and dizziness.
On a different note, I recently learned that it’s the proteins that EBV produce that cause problems within the human host.
The EBV uTPase saga is fascinating. Researchers at Ohio State have been studying it in ME/CFS, in particular, for years.
It comes from herpesviruses that are partly held in check by the immune system but are spewing out this protein that appears to be activating the immune system. ME/CFS really birthed this research – and it’s ongoing.
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2017/11/05/crippled-herpesviruses-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
Well in my case, the herpesvirus plays a huge role, in that lately it is always there, ready to pop out at any moment. Every now and then, from taking various herbs or whatever from the current naturopathic doc I’m seeing, my immune system gets a bit of control and I am a tad better. It’s as though my immune system is spinning trying to control it. I’m taking Valcyclovir (generic Valtrex) again. Never seems to help. Maybe I need to take it for a long long time.
Thanks always Cort for keeping your eyes on everything! Amazing.
Thanks Cort. You are a wealth of knowledge. I read the article and got excited…….then realised it was written seven years ago!! I wonder how they are progressing with it?
Wayne, may I ask what this Chinese herb is btw?
I’m not allowed to say, but it’s a combination of anti coagulants.
That’s interesting about the Chinese medicinal product you will be trialing.
I have been taking a chinese herbal pill to help with my ME/POTS, blood circulation, viral and auto immune problems. It acts as an anticoagulant…it activates the blood and eliminates blood stasis!
My well experienced & knowledgeable TCM doctor from China started me on them a few years ago for my ME and blood circulation problems (I actually progressed from cooking the raw herbs…the herbal pills are a lot easier to take). They do not cure ME, but they certainly help treat the many symptoms that we have to deal with on a daily basis.
What is the name of the supplement?
For help and information on taking them you would have to see a TCM doctor first…but the Chinese herbal pills are called Xue Fu Zhu Yu Wan, and the brand is Black Pearl. Hope that helps 🙂
It isn’t tested yet, much less named.
As a Long Covid impacted human (and by that I mean, bedbound this year), I can attest to having both a hx of EBV and chronic HSV-1 reactivation for two years following my acute Covid infection. I have had an unremitting series of cold sores in my nasal passages since Covid. This article highlights what I have been telling every doctor, including infectious disease and neurology who have poo-pooed my questions about the topic. Good Lord, why are we not further? My LC has manifested significant cognitive changes, neurological changes, and ushered in dysautonomia, neuropathy, and low ferritin/iron stores. Thank you for this mindful piece. I’m anxious to see further study!
Dong quai?
Dong Quai is only 1 of a combination of 11 different herbs in the TCM pill.
Wayneo, interested to know what the herbal product is. Is it Gingko Biloba?
No it isn’t.
If you can’t say the name I might have a research search. I have had vertigo / dizziness so interested
Is this the Southern Cross University (Australia) trial? My daughter has had chronic debilitating vertigo for over 5 years. I would be keen to find out what the Chinese medicinal product is and whether the trial is successful. We are in the UK.
So interesting. Is this why my new ME/Long Covid doc added a Herpes virus test to my latest blood work order?
Great looking infographics! Unfortunately the small text is fuzzy and illegible. And you can’t click on them to view a full sized version. As a visual thinker I find this very frustrating.
I could help with this if I knew the workflow from source to page to isolate where the loss of quality occurs.
The brain donation info is intriguing. I’ve always wondered where it could be done. I’d love to be able to help research about ME/CFS and other debilitating diseases. But is there any guarantees that my brain tissue wouldn’t be used for what many (including myself) consider unethical experimentation?
Thank you, Cort, Very intriguing and so long overdue. Had an EBV test 8yrs ago, I’ve had it for 40yrs but never tested, and my results were off the charts at 35,000. The trigger of my ME/CFS was self-diagnosed Ramsay Hunt Syndrome 10yrs ago.
Hurry up Docs and provide a treatment for EBV!
Has anyone seen jarred youngers latest video, uploaded today? He has done scans proving low oxygen profusion in Gulf War Syndrom (ME and FM results out next week) causing mitocondtia to use the anaerobic system rather than aerobic. He suggests one reason may be lack of the blood vessels expanding and hence restricting blood flow. Seems to link with parts of the above post, it am I misreading?
Sorry I don’t buy it at all.
And not only because of my personal experience (never had EBV until 4 tears after I came down with CFS)
I mean ‘years!
I don’t buy it at all either.
I thought everybody knew the EBV and other viruses popped up AFTER we got sick.
I’ll keep putting my betting dollars on heavy metals from vaccines.
All the soldier in the gulf war were given at the very least, 10 -15 vaccines just before combat….that is one issue they keep trying to burry
The tipping trigger for many of us is a stressor or chemical “over exposure” like the burning oil wells in the gulf war.
My trigger that sent me downward was a harmless polyurethane floor finish….that anybodys immune system could/should be able to handle…but….there was something brewing long before that floor finish
” overexposure”
These days we have vaccines for EVERYTHING.
by the time a child is 10 the would have 20 vaccines!
I know a lady that refused to have any of her 3 children vaccinated.those kids are all grown up today.
All three kids have strong robust immune systems.
I honestly believe ive been sick all my life….
Vaccine injured as a toddler.
You cannot tell me mercury, one of the most toxic elements known to man, is fine to be used in vaccines…..no electricity between our cells hmmm…..metals could surely interfere with electricity.
interesting that there is
some proof of cell towers Interfering with symptoms of long covid
THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT
Everything ive read ,re GWS and the vaccines they took ,was it was caused by Mycoplasma infected vaccines ( also many studies linked MS and other illnesses to contaminated vaccines ,back then )
It was only after Peterson institute did their research on the contaminated vaccines , that they finally developed the PCR tests which are now used worldwide ,for testing for Mycoplasma etc
Start of the second Gulf War ,England thought it was under a biological attack ,because 1000s of vials washed up on shore . Turned out the english troops leaving for the Gulf ,broke in to the infirmary ,and threw all the vaccines overboard ,before they could be used on them , directly relating back to vaccine use in first GW
For me personally , ive always believed my CFS was caused directly from a bad case of Walking Mans Flu ( Mycoplasma phuemonia ) which went viral on me ,because i didnt go to Doctor for treatment early enough
Buckey. My friend Tracy was in the military. He told me that he got sick with Gulf War syndrome and knows it was the vaccines because He got the vaccines then something happened and He was not deployed. So He never went, and was not exposed to any chemicals over there.
I’ve had herpes virus for 20years, I get about 6 outbreaks per year. But the way I’m completely fatigued all of the time, is frightening. Brain fog no sex drive even after taking viagra there is definetely a connection, I have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia 2years ago.
I’m taking L-Lysine and monolaurin to try and tamp down any herpes viruses (I’ve only been tested for reactivated EBV, but I’m sure I have more). I was offered tenofovir, but chickened out and requested valacyclovir. The valacyclovir made me much worse unfortunately, therefore I’m currently taking the more natural route.
Hi Andrea, I have also taken l-lysine for a while because I am convinced that my ME/CFS inflammatory episodes are really herpes (HHV-6b?) episodes. And I thought it worked.
The thing is, one day I read an entry of another ME-sufferer that she took just the opposite of l-lysine, arginine, because she had read that arginine was low in ME/CFS and thus smart to supplement. And she also thought it worked.
What I of course infered from that is that those two proteins are not crucial to replace in ME/CFS.
It saved me a lot of money. And with the strategy of pace and rest I got better and better at avoiding relapses.
I am not being flippant here , am an M.E. sufferer since the 1980s but , I always look up the food sources of any potential remedies mentioned , and a really good Indian curry would cover the anticoagulant , lysine and monolaurin !
***see Dr. Alex Vasquez’s work***
Here we go again. Reinventing the wheel. Dr. David Berg advocated the use of anticoagulants many years ago.
I was first diagnosed in 1984 by two immunologists who put me on an experimental form of heparin obtained on an orphan drug status from Germany.
One of my early symptoms was horrid headaches which could be knocked out by a shot of heparin.
Today I take an anticoagulant supplement called Bulouke which I get on Amazon.
Betty, I had Dr. Berg’s coagulation testing and had hypercoagulation results. The only rx my doctor would allow was the injections of lovenox. Very painful self injections so I quit them. Can you expand on Bulouke please? Is is similar to nattokainase? Did you get retested or see improvement? Thank you.
This is the most interesting study by far. 41 years ago (immediately following an 11 hour spine surgery), I came down with (what they called) Shingles. From the age of 23 until now, I break out in this same painful rash anytime I have a severe illness or surgery. It is on my hip and outer leg.
6 years ago I was diagnosed with a rare form of blood cancer. I was treated every 10 days for a year. One day the Oncologist came in and said “you never had cancer~your red blood cells were too thick??). End of story.
One year later I was diagnosed with Stage II Triple Negative Breast Cancer. A rarer type of cancer where there are no receptors to attack with chemo.
I’m now in my 25th year of severe MECFS and Fibromyalgia. I’m in bed on avg 23 hours each day. Bed sores and the wasting of muscle are constant companions.
I’ve seen 93 doctors in those 25 years, and not one has ever heard of MECFS, and when I give them a short page with 2 paragraphs from the CDC~they won’t even read it! I haven’t seen a doctor since my chemo as my husband had to make a bed in the back of our SUV and have 3 men get me into and out of the car. Once at the hospital, they would put me on a gurney for transportation and chemo. Even after weekly chemo for 16 months; my Oncologist thought I demanded to be carried on a gurney because of my cancer even though my husband tried explaining it over and over.
When will things change? If not for me~then all the others like me?
Herpes lies latent in me and normally I don’t get breakouts. Last Spring I got three vaccines (flu, Covid, and Shingles) within a two week time frame. After the vaxxes, I got a huge, long lasting Herpes breakout and a subsequent long lived crash. I suspect it was related to the vaccines. This is just an FYI for people to make the possible association between revving up the immune system while tearing it down (making it more vulnerable).
When first establishing a patient relationship with Dr. Bonilla at Stanford, he ran a series of tests to see if there was prior exposure to HHV6, Cytomegalovirus, EBV. I had positive titers for EBV–but then again, it is very, very common to have been affected by this virus. This makes me wonder what else may be the trigger to cause such a long lasting and debilitating disorder as ME/CFS.
As an aside, I reported to Dr. Bonilla that I was experiencing some improvement by supplementing with amino acids, especially the kind usually found in foods like beef and which the body doesn’t readily synthesize. He shared that some of his patients reported that they had noticed improvements when they added beef to their diet. One woman had huge improvements when she began eating 1 to 2 lbs. of beef daily! The caveat here is that it had to be organic (expensive), grass fed beef!
All these relationships are clues which I hope someone can string together to find help for all of us.
Hi Nancy would this maybe be that said woman you speak of with the converting to eating more beef maybe she was converting to more of a carnivore diet that helped her possibly , no ?
@Robert,
It wasn’t discussed what else she ate as per a carnivore diet. What was mentioned was that perhaps certain amino acids, which are very abundant in beef, were the factors that helped. Since I experienced some improvements with eating these aminos as a supplement, that perhaps it was the aminos that helped and not necessarily the beef. But who knows? It was at this time the appointment was over and so I didn’t get to discuss Dr. Nath’s research,,, ;-(
Very interesting observations Nancy- particularly regarding amino acid therapy + the augmentation of beef in one’s nutritional plan. 🥩
Thank you for sharing. 😊
One day someone is going to solve this puzzle. 🧩 💯
Cort,
For the first time on Health Rising, I wish I had the ability to report a comment and request its removal.
Please review today’s comments for a response that’s full of vaccine conspiracy theory. You do such a good job of bringing us science that’s applicable to our suffering. I hate to see anti-science rhetoric posted in response, especially if it’s not called out and/or removed.
Thanks!
There is no conspiracy regarding vaccinations. I don’t believe in that either. But there are well-founded reasons to be critical of certain vaccines. Simply because the long-term effects have not yet been studied. Science is also not infallible. For example, read this report with an open mind.
https://www.worldtribune.com/researchers-study-of-125-countries-finds-no-evidence-covid-vaccines-provided-any-benefit/
https://correlation-canada.org/covid-excess-mortality-125-countries/
As long as independent researchers do not receive the data on patient level, nothing is certain and is contrary to transparency. It is not my intention to start a whole polemic. But it is not simply black and white. Have a nice day!
Great article Cort!
Cort
Would this also be the case for the shingles virus ( herpes Zoster/varicella-zoster virus (VZV) ?
Dr Prusty said in one of his interviews that there was a hit to natural IgM globilins and they were a first line of defense in cleaning up cellular debris from this leaky virus damage. He was even alluding to IgM infusions
I forgot to add that the leaky virus proteins incite IgG auto antibodies and adequate natural IgM keeps these in check. And in fact my nIgM are low. But how to raise them?
not that simple with chinese herbs. i have a wonderful practioner, but as i have had me/cfs for 35 yrs and took 1 covid shot my herbs change rapidly. I take 24 at a time and 2 days later they are no longer working. and there are alot of commonalities with chinese herbs, but they are not designed to take daily ongoing-if symptoms change just slighlty daily so will herbs. mine are very customized ie sure curcumin is good for you and good for your liver but not for everyday. however it is also fine to cook with…
Isn’t Vitamin E a natural blood thinner? Anyone tried Vitamin E mixed tocopherols for LC? Any studies on this?
Adding to these clotting issues , dont forget micro clotting is one of the main damaging things that occurs due to Covid (besides its initial breakdown of the Vit D3 pathways )
We hear a lot about the increase in sudden deaths and some vaccines get the blame.
Personally ,i think its more likely to be deaths from microclotting ,in people that just havent been diagnosed as having Covid ,or had it awhile back ,but the micro clotting issues have just kept on building up
Hi Tanya, Bolouke is Lumbrokinase. Boluoke® may assist people with a tendency towards hypercoagulation, by reducing fibrinogen and fibrin without interfering with the clotting cascade. I found this product on the My Lady of Lyme website. She also suggests other products that have worked for me including an excellent digestive enzyme by Claire Labs. There are cheaper products than Boluoke but I have found that this one works the best for me. You can buy it on Amazon.
Thank you for the response, Betty!
I have tried nattokinase in the past, but never was supervised using it and concerned about safety. I tend to get nose bleeds if I use fish oil/omega 3s too often. I will try the lumbokinase. Thank you.
I haven’t seen too many people talk about their EBV-IgG Early Antigen (EA) levels here. Mine have been elevated for the last decade or so, ever since different functional medicine doctors have tested them. That means EBV is reactivated. One doctor tried me on an anti-viral, but I quit after 2 months and not noticing any benefits. It’s possible I should have stayed a lot longer on them. I say I always FEEL like I’m sick, but don’t have the usual signs, like fever, etc. So, now I’m curious if a lot here have reactivated EBV.
BINGO!!!
I had a doctor who tried me on low dose heparin. It didn’t help. The numbers he was testing would go up and down and seemed unrelated to how bad I felt. I did it for a year.
I have taken Valcyclovir and other antivirals through Stanford. I felt a lot worse while on them. Then when I went off I had an okay improvement in symptoms for two weeks. Then back to the old grind.
Maybe some people with CFS will respond to this kind of treatment, but my experience doesn’t give me much hope in this avenue of research.
Hi, it’s Lina here! I am glad we see more research into the herpes viruses. I am personally convinced that my moderate ME/CFS (no dysautonomia but epidsodes of brain inflammation) is caused by a special abortive type of HHV-6b smoldering reinflammation where the immune system is not perfectly able to push the virus down again but the virus is also not able to cause full blown (life-threatening) brain inflammation which is known only in severely immuno-suppressed patients (organ transplantation, AIDS, ect.).
The reason why I believe that this is true is that the brain inflammation I had was stopped with acyclovir. This drug is active against HHV no 1, 2, and 6, but not 4 (which is EBV).
The leading researchers into this hypothesis as the possible root cause in ME/CFS are Bhupesh Prusty, and Jacqueline Cliff and Eliana Lacerda.
They have made very convincing findings over the past years in small prospective studies. Prusty could show that an mRNA that is produced in the early replication phase of the virus is just the missing piece that causes the mitochondria to malfunction. Plus, he did a post-mortem brain tissue study where he could prove that HHV-6b inflammation had been going on for the ME-patients but not the controls.
Cliff and Lacerda could clinically show for a small group in a prospective study that HHV-6b showed up consistently in ME/CFS in the saliva of the patients and that the viral loads were higher with symptom severity.
They are now doing a new study where they want to find out whether a HHV-6b flare-up is the cause of PEM (and all the symptoms) or if something else drives the disease and it is only after PEM hits that it is accompanied by a herpes reactivation. I am eagerly awaiting the results.
I am so convinced that this is the right answer that I am sure the ten billions that Senator Sanders is now organising are going to be necessary. ; )
Since EBV shows up consistently as well as far as I know from Prusty’s findings in mild level Post-Covid-Syndrome I wonder whether it is also activated. But I am sure that it is not the main driver of ME/CFS.
Correction: Sander’s billions are not going to be needed in the end.
But we should of course advocate until we have the answer.
Thanks so much for that update, Cort. I am glad that we have yet another research team going into herpes in ME/CFS.
Since it is the only trace where there is actually evidence that something about the herpes theory could be the explanation we should have more people, more institutions, more money tracking down these questions.
Cort, the paper discusses EBV and HHV-6b. And for many of their findings they have more data on HHV-6b as the potential driver of ME/CFS.
Cort… I appreciate your blog and the fact that you’re on top of the latest ME/CFS research. I raised this question to Lina below in my response to her. My question: Why has no one ever heard of the retrovirus HIAP-II that was discovered back in the early 90’s? At least a subset of ME/CFS individuals have idiopathic CD4+ T-lymphocytopenia (ICL), otherwise known as non-hiv aids. The individual who discovered this virus (professor Robert Garry) is still employed at Tulane University. My attempts to reach him have been futile. Perhaps you have some ties where you can raise this question?
Here is the official patent for this disease:
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO1995031531A1/en