1 yr update/Healing with herbal anti-virals

[Tammy7]

Did you take any of your protocol in powder form? Like you almost all of my protocol is alcohol tincture, apart from the cats claw and the andro, which is powder capsule.

Mostly the anti-virals I took were tinctures...........however non alcohol tinctures. The L-lysine of course was capsules.

So I do think potent anti bacterials as part of the protocol - for me - is really important.

According to Anthony William whose suggestions I follow, the streptococcus bacteria is a partner in crime with the EBV. Fortunately a lot of the anti-virals that Anthony suggests also work against the streptococcus bacteria. Another good anti-bacterial is oil of oregano.

 

[Apo Sci]

What viruses are you positive for @Tammy7? I have never heard of anyone curing ME through Buhner's protocal (Nutramedix). I took several of their products myself and never got much improvement.

Buhner is a lay herbalist with no healthcare credentials.

 

[Tammy7]

What viruses are you positive for @Tammy7? I have never heard of anyone curing ME through Buhner's protocal (Nutramedix). I took several of their products myself and never got much improvement.

Buhner is a lay herbalist with no healthcare credentials.

I'm dealing with the EBV. I've heard of Buhner but have never tried his protocol.

 

[Apo Sci]

I'm dealing with the EBV. I've heard of Buhner but have never tried his protocol.

Have you been tested for all the known ME viruses (HHV6, CMV, Coxsackievirus)?

The problem is that there really aren't any effective treatments available now to kill the virally infected cells. Dr. Lerner tried with several that stopped replication but that didn't prove efficacious in Montoya's controlled trial.

While I think that antiviral inhibitor herbs (licorice, cat's claw) are useful to limit viral spread they have the same problems as the prescription drugs in that they don't kill the infected cells.

I think immunotherapy may be a good approach. There are two immunotherapies that are being developed, Crasing which uses both supplements and OTC drugs and Vtose which is an early stage drug which needs FDA approval. Neither are available yet. They work by blocking viral apoptosis checkpoint inhibitors which triggers apoptosis and death of the infected cells. This means that if they can do this safely that a cure may be in sight for ME.

 

[Dom]

Hey thanks for the replies. Alcohol tinctures here too. I tried buhners energy formula, it sort of worked but my digestion seemed to stop working, I wasn't going to the loo for like 2 days! Was rather worrying so had to stop. Second symptom felt like low blood sugar (but wasn't as I tried the fixes for hypoglycemia) I now think the powders were lowering my blood pressure, but it was lasted well over 6 hours. Not what you want.

The issue really with a lot of these herbs is that they aren't particularly potent. There are almost no in vivo studies for the likes or oregano etc as well and even following symptoms after taking something (herx's are quite hard to really follow and could be due to anything). This makes it difficult to know what is and what is not potent.

Branding and manufacturing process is another issue. Take Andrographis Paniculata for example, I've tried dozens of manufactured versions of this herb, from india and from herbalists in Scotland. The only one that appears to have any benefit for ME is Pukka branded Andrographis Paniculata. Over about a year + I went from only being able to tolerate one capsule (severe flu like symptoms or close to it after taking it) to being able to take 15g a day (which is about one bottle) in cases of acute viral infection. This herb is amazing as well, it crosses the blood brain barrier and has a variety of soothing effects, neuroprotective, benzo type effects on the brain, etc. Sadly most herbal complexes or treatments I've got on well with make me extremely hungry and then give me anxiety, almost everything does this. Hence why I take them sparingly.

I'm sure some herbal compounds are potent enough, it's just figuring out which ones. But Lauricidin and Andrographis Paniculata are great parasite/bacteria killers for sure. I often feel better after a course of Andro for about 3 to 4 weeks before the effects start to wear off.

 

[Apo Sci]

Hey thanks for the replies. Alcohol tinctures here too. I tried buhners energy formula, it sort of worked but my digestion seemed to stop working, I wasn't going to the loo for like 2 days! Was rather worrying so had to stop. Second symptom felt like low blood sugar (but wasn't as I tried the fixes for hypoglycemia) I now think the powders were lowering my blood pressure, but it was lasted well over 6 hours. Not what you want.

The issue really with a lot of these herbs is that they aren't particularly potent. There are almost no in vivo studies for the likes or oregano etc as well and even following symptoms after taking something (herx's are quite hard to really follow and could be due to anything). This makes it difficult to know what is and what is not potent.

Branding and manufacturing process is another issue. Take Andrographis Paniculata for example, I've tried dozens of manufactured versions of this herb, from india and from herbalists in Scotland. The only one that appears to have any benefit for ME is Pukka branded Andrographis Paniculata. Over about a year + I went from only being able to tolerate one capsule (severe flu like symptoms or close to it after taking it) to being able to take 15g a day (which is about one bottle) in cases of acute viral infection. This herb is amazing as well, it crosses the blood brain barrier and has a variety of soothing effects, neuroprotective, benzo type effects on the brain, etc. Sadly most herbal complexes or treatments I've got on well with make me extremely hungry and then give me anxiety, almost everything does this. Hence why I take them sparingly.

I'm sure some herbal compounds are potent enough, it's just figuring out which ones. But Lauricidin and Andrographis Paniculata are great parasite/bacteria killers for sure. I often feel better after a course of Andro for about 3 to 4 weeks before the effects start to wear off.

If Buhner's herbal regimen worked there would be studies on it by now. You aren't going to cure chronic DNA viruses by throwing viral inhibitors at them. This has been tried by Lehrner and was debunked by Montoya which caused medicine to abandon the idea for existing anti-virals.

Buhner is a lay herbalist with no scientific and health care credentials. He created an ineffective regimen and continues to market it as a ME cure because of the USA's tolerance of herbal medicines.

 

[Dom]

I know, I'm not saying Buhner is qualified. Even he says it himself in his own book if memory serves.

The other issue is herbals might be modulating the immune system (LDN is an immune modulator and seems to work for Fibromalygia patients) whereas it could also just be performing a detox on the detox pathways (that don't work properly). Which would explain why once I got my detox/liver pathways working in 2018 I suddenly felt tons better. It took about 12 days at max dose for that to happen. (this included cats claw and japanese knotweed powder which is part of buhners protocol, but a load of tinctures that are not part of his protocol as well)

 

[Apo Sci]

I know, I'm not saying Buhner is qualified. Even he says it himself in his own book if memory serves.

The other issue is herbals might be modulating the immune system (LDN is an immune modulator and seems to work for Fibromalygia patients) whereas it could also just be performing a detox on the detox pathways (that don't work properly). Which would explain why once I got my detox/liver pathways working in 2018 I suddenly felt tons better. It took about 12 days at max dose for that to happen. (this included cats claw and japanese knotweed powder which is part of buhners protocol, but a load of tinctures that are not part of his protocol as well)

I don't think it was from a detox. Japanese Knotweed is a strong anti-oxidant so this would provide some short-lived symptomatic relief. Patients report dosing with strong anti-oxidants gives them a day of feeling good then a bad crash that they have to recover from.

 

[HusbandOf]

Hey great thread, I have been wanting to create an antiviral diet!
One thing that confuses me about antiviral, but more so antibacterial supplements, is how do you know if they are targeting only the bad bacteria and viruses?