Genes Highlight Inflammation and Mast Cells in Fibromyalgia

[ankaa]

Cool..... I've been saying for at least 7 years - autoimmune and inflammation is the core and that glutamate and dopamine dysregulation has something to do with it. Glad it's starting to be proven.

And as for mast cell the connection could be with the glutamate connection - NMDR dysfunction. Can cause one to be in sympathetic mode. But.... with me taking GABA has a paradox reaction. (It should modify glutamate.) Instead it hypes my sympathetic overdrive. It has been said that if one has a response to GABA (in either direction - good or bad) the blood brain barrier has been breeched. This isn't a good thing. Because harmful substances can go to your brain. I have found Tramadol to help with all my autonomic nervous system issues. It affects all the neurotransmitters and NMDA. (Not everyone has a positive response to Tramadol.) I stay very low on my dose and stop taking it when it quits working. Stay off a week or two and then go back on it. It somehow reboots and starts working at low doses again. I find using Bentyl - a mild muscle relaxer - helps in combination. Those two meds along with GastroCrom for mast cell have been my best RXs to date.
Issie

ditto.... Tramadol was a miracle, until it wasn't... Too hard on my stomach, so back to square one... When inflammation is down, I feel like a different person, or I should say, I finally feel how I am supposed to feel.

 

[curlycat]

I know this is an old thread, but it contains a link to research saying that Mg glycinate taurate can cure major depression in a week. Has anyone had any results with that?

Now, 6 yrs. after this thread was posted, I am taking Mg Threonate, for which the same thing is being claimed. It is supposed to be the only form of Mg that easily crosses the BBB. It also claims improvement in cognition, brain, fog, anxiety, depression and insomnia. It was like a miracle the first 3 nights, allowing me to sleep for 6 hrs. after almost 3 yrs. of sleeping an average of only 4 hrs. per night. Then, like so very many other things for FMS, it seemed to stop working. But, when I tried not to take it, I had a withdrawal reaction, so I kept on taking it, but at the starter dose of 1,200 mgs. an hour before bedtime. I still need about 325 mgs. of Mg citrate during the day for bowel function, so I was afraid to take the full recommended dose of 1,800 mgs. threonate.

Has anyone here had any experience with Mg Threonate, and if so, what did it help you with and how/when do you take it?

 

[Issie]

I wasn't able to use that form of magnesium. It made me feel awful. I called Life Extension about my response and it was an odd reaction to their doctors on staff. We never figured out why I reacted that way. I seldom use magnesium supplements. Just concentrate on foods mostly. Am no longer strict vegan. Found in 3 1/2 years of being strict I needed more protein than I was getting and got weak. Adding back meat a few times a week helped that. (I still take supplements though. Also find a few meds still necessary. )

I still hold to my views about glutamate and its connections to mast cell and that it is a part of my puzzle. Very well could be a part of others puzzle with POTS and over response with sympathetic nervous system. Lots of information coming out and more research being done.

I also firmly believe that Aspartame can go into a glutamate if the Krebs cycle is wonky can affect a person very adversely. Many reports showing its dangers even with cognitive functions. With my, ICU overnight in the hospital, experience with Aspartame sweetened gum and a horrible mast cell response......I'm a believer in its ill effects for some and definitely for me.

 

[curlycat]

Thanks, Issie, for sharing your experience with Mg threonate. I am very sorry you had trouble. I have almost died from a couple of supps. I've tried, so I know how scary it can be, when we are so very sensitive. I really need magnesium. It has been the single most helpful supplement for my FMS and Lyme and I just wish I'd known I needed it earlier, before I developed the spasms that got me hooked on benzos, and developed 3 prolapsed heart valves. I am concerned that the claims being made now for Mg threonate are the exact same ones made for Mg glycinate taurate many years ago...I think if that had panned out, I would have heard about it. As you know, Mg threonate is quite costly. The possible addictive problem may be occurring only in people like me who are low in GABA too, which it helps to make.

I have also cut the number of supps. I take, but mostly due to cost. Lyme docs prescribe so many supps., if I took them all, I would have to go live in the street! Also, taking only 1/3 of the Lyme docs suggested amt. of vit. B6 caused toxic neuropathy that took a whole year to subside into permanent problems with my feet.

I do not touch aspartame. Sugar alcohols are even worse for me. I use only Stevia.

I don't know if I have a mast cell disorder, and no longer have the money for the kind of medical care that would help me find out, but I sure do need Benadryl to sleep. It actually seems to help my pain, and keeps my very irritable bladder quiet longer. It is contributing to my loss of memory, but I don't know what to do about it, except eat eggs daily. I tried both of the expensive forms of Choline, but they did not help me. I wanted to try Zyrtec, but it lasts 24 hrs., and I need the sedating effect of Benadryl to get any sleep at all.

The glutamate issue is one that worries me too, since I need to take small amounts of L-glutamine powder and vitamin C to keep precancerous metaplasia and gastritis out of my stomach. Stomach cancer runs in my family, and that combo, according to 4 Chinese research papers I found, is the only thing that is proven to get rid of it 82% of the time. So far, in about 8 yrs. of taking it on and off, I have not noticed the L-glutamine making me worse, maybe because I take a much, much smaller dose than is taken by the body builders who normally use it. L-gulatmine also helps to make GABA, which I am very short on, having recently gone through a long withdrawal from Xanax, prescribed to stop muscle spasms so I could walk. I have fallen 4 times since totally stopping it 10 mos. ago, but it is due to taking Mg that I can walk on my own at all w/o those horrible benzos.

 

[Issie]

You have alot going on too. So sorry for you.

For my MCAS I use Allegra, 1/2 zantac and GastroCrom. Benadryl will key me up , make me jumpy. I would sleep for a short while and wake up with palpitations. Never felt restful either. Allegra for me isn't sedative, but helps keep mast cell much duller roaring.

Glad the magnesium helps you. It does many. My doc years ago didnt want us to use calcium, magnesium or fish oils. He said it would feed biofilm. He found what he thought was a protozoa that turned out to be a type fungus that also forms biofilm. He found it to increase it and prevent immune system to be able to kill pathogens. I tried several times using magnesium to just see if it helped me, despite his warnings. I really didnt see much difference and had his warning in back of my mind. There is so much research on benefit of magnesium. But, if he is right.....I don't want to stop my progression of trying to rid Lyme, protozoa, fungus by having too much biofilm as a protector for those things. I'm sure biofilm may be a sort of protector for me too as too much of a breakthrough and if detox isn't done well enough....more issues.

I think with me, there is a pathway issue with glutamate and not all people will have the same problem. Both my sis and her son have it too. If glutamine were an issue for you, you would have already discovered it, I'm sure. Maybe you have your pathways working correctly.

My best thing for spasms is Bentyl. It is a mild muscle relaxer usually used for IBS. But it helps my other spasms too. It could however have similar properties as a benzodiazepine. Never had issues not using it though or withdrawal. It will however cause more parasympathetic response (GABA like) and could potentially cause depression with some. Never could tolerate a benzodiazepine. All too strong for me.

 

[curlycat]

I spent years also treating biofilm with serapeptase and nattokinase. It did not seem to make a difference. We are all so different!

Bentyl caused severe vertigo and had me laying flat and whirling for 8 of the longest hours of my life. So did another drug like it, the name of which I forget.

I agree with not taking supplemental calcium and wish I had known that during menopause when I took 2 grams of it daily, on top of having dairy at every meal. Not good, but nobody seemed to know that then. Now I take Mg and vit. D3 instead.

I know a couple people who have paradoxical reactions to Benadryl like you do. It is a heart stimulant, which I should not take, but I have verapamil to counteract it that I must take anyway due to severe PSVT.

I am glad you have found just the right combo to address your issues.

 

[Issie]

It's a work in progress. Always tweaking, adjusting and trying to find a better "bandaid".

 

[Issie]

Other muscle relaxer is Flexeril. Was that it? That one was too strong for me.

 

[dejurgen]

I am taking Mg Threonate... ...It was like a miracle the first 3 nights, allowing me to sleep for 6 hrs. after almost 3 yrs. of sleeping an average of only 4 hrs. per night. Then, like so very many other things for FMS, it seemed to stop working.

Best thing I did find sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0278691583901011:
"When administered orally to guinea-pigs (100 mg/kg body weight) for periods of 4 or 28 days, it produced a significant fall in the ascorbic acid concentration of certain organs but was without effect on other physiological and biochemical characteristics. The lifespan of scorbutic guinea-pigs was significantly reduced by dietary threonic acid (100 mg/kg body weight). The results indicate that threonic acid may modify the metabolism of ascorbic acid in guinea-pigs."

If you believe you need high amounts of vitamin C (and many ME patients do and you may need it even more as you claim), then high amounts of threonate might interfere. The used 100 mg/kg body weight would translate to a full 6 gr a day in a average healthy female and that is more then you take, but not so much more. And these were healthy guinea-pigs.

Another small chance is that threose also has an isomer called erythrose and that is part of the important Pentose Phosphate Pathway but its hard to see how that would negatively affect you. I'd gamble on the interference with vitamin C.

 

[Lasse]

From Natinonal Library of Medicine
Mast Cells, Neuroinflammation and Pain in Fibromyalgia Syndrome