Retrovirus At The Root Of Multiple Chronic Diseases

[Strike me lucky]

I guess its why many cfs dr gurus say we have immune dysfunction as parts are up and others are down and from one cfs pt to the next they can be different.

Inflammation we have to remember is a symptom but it can also stop the body from heeling properly or with infections prevent the immune system or anti infectious drugs getting to them.

Also short term inflammation is a good thing and causes pain etc and makes us rest to recover. Long term inflammation though can cause other issues to occur as can long term steroid treatment.

What do we do?

 

[IrisRV]

What do we do?

Exactly! There are too many variable in this situation. We need more research (preaching to the choir)

To get back to the thread topic: Starting with the assumption a retrovirus is involved (not saying it is, not saying it isn't, just suppose it were), any thoughts about whether the retrovirus might be causing immune dysfunction, or whether a pre-existing immune dysfunction allowed an otherwise not-too-serious retrovirus to get hold of us?

We know HIV damages CD4 cells, which then leads to an inablity to fight off common, easily handled infections. The patients died from the infections, not directly from the retrovirus (although the retrovirus is obviously the root cause).

Human T-cell Leukemia Viruses (HTLV variants) can very rarely lead to adult T-cell leukemia, but are there other symptoms in less severe cases? It looks like both of these exogenous retroviruses affect the immune system.

Is the xmrv-like virus also believed to affect the immune system, or is it doing something else to the body hypothetically causing many chronic illnesses? Has anyone seen anywhere if Dr Mikovits has proposed an action of the xmrv-like virus, or is she still at the point of only hypothesizing its existence?

What do other known retroviruses (endogenous and exogenous) do? What are the symptoms?

 

[EYAKLLE]

My cd 3 4 8 counts doubled/tripled on arv s
My vo2 max increased by 33% too
But the winter season hits me still
Without the arv s i d be a zombie or a rotten vegetable rottingly surviving

 

[Strike me lucky]

If we look at other retroviruses like those in cats as well as the koala bear, the RV doesnt kill them but they get sick from other infections very similar to hiv or even cfs.

I think mikovits first hypothesized an RV by the infections and cancers found in cfsers and saying it looks like a RV. My understanding is that its not one RV but family of RVs that are the issue. To confuse things to there is an xmrv lab contaminant also which i dont think they can rule out isnt pathogenic in humans either.

In her book it says something like a smart RV will kill a person , an even smarter RV wont kill a person??? It also appears the RV she says is in cfsers is a slower replicator than hiv, so may take longer to treat it compared to hiv.

I'd like to hear from Montoya what he thinks about the cfsers he found with RVs and if they were endogenous or not??

 

[Strike me lucky]

My cd 3 4 8 counts doubled/tripled on arv s
My vo2 max increased by 33% too
But the winter season hits me still
Without the arv s i d be a zombie or a rotten vegetable rottingly surviving

My cd counts have always been high and tests mostly say it looks viral. The only things that have been low are nk function and neutrophils.

 

[EYAKLLE]

'High' may in fact be relatively low for you??

 

[Strike me lucky]

'High' may in fact be relatively low for you??

Maybe but higher than normal range on labs. They have come down with antivirals but mostly above normal range. Also shot up high when off antivirals, so strongly indicates viral infection which we think is cmv and or vzv. Ebv is a possibility but i didnt seroconvert after mono so dont produce antibodies to ebv.

When i could get nk function testing, this did improve when i felt better.

I personally think theres an underlying infection , an unknown such as a retrovirus .

For those that have viruses reactivating i cant see it being an autoimmune disorder or rituximab helping until infections controlled atleast. But i think an auto inflammatory issue could be going on as the immune system tries to fight these infections etc.

 

[loki]

@loki. I can't read 99% of your post since you don't use paragraphs.

From what I could pick up here and there Suggesting methotrexate is the worst thing for someone with chronic Infections.

As I say on my signature I'm not interested in unsolicted advice from people who don't know me or my total Health picture

What we do know as @Strike me lucky says is we don't know a lot. What works for one does not work for another. One persons bad response is that. One persons response.

If we didn't try things Inspite if people's bad responses who knows where we'd be. I'd never in a million years use stimulates. I won't tell you not to.

@Who Me? ´i did write the following:

what i know about viruses and the immune system:

when a virus lives in the body for a long time and is finally eradicated by either a drug or the immune system,

that doesn't mean automatically that all symptoms resolve magically.


the immune system has something like a memory and often is out of balance after a long time infection related activity and continues to produce symptoms.

especially @Who Me?

i don't want to give you advices but i had HCV for 6 years and

it compromised my primary immune systems completely, interferon also kicked my ass...

i try to adjust my immunity with prednisolone these days,

if you have symptoms with valcyte,

for example hot flashes in the spine and body, maybe ask your doctor if it's an idea to try low doses of steroids to

downregulate the immune system and parallelly check viral titers to see if the valcyte can do most of the work on his own.

i don't know if it's a good idea but since i don't have such a special doctor it would be awesome for me to hear his thoughts on this...

what i had written had nothing to do with methotrexat, i know that it is not a good idea in infectious patients.

it was just an idea for you to talk to your doctor about and i was curious about his point of view

 

[EYAKLLE]

@strikemelucky
What about during periods when you have a nasty bout of cold/flu? How low can they go?

True that some (25%-35%???) hiv aids patients always have normal cd 3 4 8 counts. No idea how they measure their improvement in that case. Other indirect markers perhaps

 

[RuthAnn]

@EYAKLLE its great to have this conversation and not be sensored. Thanks for sharing.

It must be nice to be able to discuss things that others disagree with without being ridiculed or bashed.

 

[Who Me?]

@loki I have no problem listening to people who I know, who know me and who have proven over the years that they know of what they speak. I am not interested in hearing what some stranger, who does not know me except for a few comments I've made here or there has to say, especially when that medical knowledge has been questioned by the very people I trust and have known for more than half a minute.

 

[loki]

@Who Me? yeah, you're maybe right, don't wanna excuse things but it's been hell for me the last 2 years and since the damn psycho docs don't have a clue about anything that happens after IFN administration and CFS symptoms i looked into it for ~5h /day and it spins around my head like the fucking moon. You said you don't know technical stuff, i don't know technical stuff too but i have something like an overview about the technic, right, i shouldn't talk about these things because i'm no doctor and i blame me and the ritalin... well, Prednisone is the thing i searched for 2 years, it relieves me even in 5mg /day so i can subsequently dose down everything else they throw at me here... i was just euphoric, cause i can play my damn instruments again, so, don't get me wrong

 

[IrisRV]

I am not interested in hearing what some stranger, who does not know me except for a few comments I've made here or there has to say,

I suggest you ignore them, especially when they start getting personal. It's not worth the aggravation or the energy to respond.

Hello Ignore button! Such a helpful feature.

 

[loki]

do that

 

[Strike me lucky]

@Who Me? yeah, you're maybe right, don't wanna excuse things but it's been hell for me the last 2 years and since the damn psycho docs don't have a clue about anything that happens after IFN administration and CFS symptoms i looked into it for ~5h /day and it spins around my head like the fucking moon. You said you don't know technical stuff, i don't know technical stuff too but i have something like an overview about the technic, right, i shouldn't talk about these things because i'm no doctor and i blame me and the ritalin... well, Prednisone is the thing i searched for 2 years, it relieves me even in 5mg /day so i can subsequently dose down everything else they throw at me here... i was just euphoric, cause i can play my damn instruments again, so, don't get me wrong

Its great the pred helps but I guess if possible try and find the best way to use it and reducing side effects. Maybe 5mg is a good maintenance and increase it for flareups.

Calcium vit d for osteoporosis prevention as well as replacing other hormone especially dhea which seems to be a yin yang relationship. The other thing with coticosteriods is messing up insulin sensitivity so work on that with diet supplement maybe metformin to improve insulin sensitivity.

If it helps go for it but i guess im just hoping you consider other issues/side effects and ways to counteract them.

You may have already said but have y used hydrocortisone 5mg 4x day?

 

[Who Me?]

I know getting quite a workout!

 

[Merida]

And to complicate things: In Robert Gallo's book, Virus Hunting : Aids, Cancer, and the Human Retrovirus, he talks about HTLV causing cancers in one group ( tribe in Africa, if I remember), but neurological symptoms in another group. Then there is The River: a Journey to the Source of HIV and AIDS by Edward Hooper. Fascinating stuff.
Shocking stuff.

The initial developers of the polio vaccine said that chimpanzee kidneys were not used , but there is testimony from African lab workers that there was a chimpanzee compound on site of polio vaccine development. Too much to repeat here.

But the impressions I came away with: Since the 1950s there has been a lot of virus tinkering - both vaccine and biowarfare - without appreciating the potential harm. People who may know and come forward can/will silenced, ridiculed one way or another.

So, who knows what dark corridors are connected to XMLV.

 

[Merida]

If you want to see a great documentary on You Tube : "The Origin of Aids AllMov" search should bring it up. It is about 1 1/2 hours. So sorry I can not seem to post the link.

Another point :The relatively new Rotavirus vaccine was found to contain DNA fragments of pig Circovirus, an immunosuppressive virus that can cause death in young piglets. The vaccine was initially pulled off the market, but then deemed "safe" and put back on infants' vaccine schedule. My grandson received this Rotavirus vaccine and woke screaming, sick for a week. After the second Rotavirus at 4 months he did not poop for 23 days - all breast fed.

His pediatrician ( trained University of Chicago) said that he was absorbing all the breast milk and just didn't need to go. Absurd. She refused to cooperate with filing an an adverse effect report.

So, who do we trust ? Is it possible that Dr. Mikovits has touched on a very sensitive area ?

 

[Merida]

Okay, great posts here. Experience with inflammation and steroids: 1988 got terrible, unusual virus. Breaking out in hives, fever, etc, developed severe asthma. Extremely sensitive to sulfites. HMO tinkered with symptoms 1. 1/2 years. Still quite ill. Went to outside doc. Big shot of prednisone in butt, 1 week Medrol dose pack, cortisone inhaler times 3 months. Asthma gone at end of 3 months. No more asthma - ever. So ?????

 

[loki]

it's a good drug with the reputation of heroin?