Vegan Doctors

Empty

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This is an interesting story about a Doctor who had a mild heart attack and then went on the 10 day McDougall programme instead of having surgery. I really like listening to these types of stories. Few new links in there for anyone who wants to dig them out.



This is the "Mom" on day 6 of the McDougall programme:

 
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Learner

Active Member

Learner

Active Member
Just a few thoughts on the vegan topic...as a former vegetarian with vegans in the family and a cancer survivor, I've had to really examine diet and what it does for the body over time. It became clear I needed to change my diet after learning some things the hard way...the inconvenient truth, as it were...

Most of the resources you've mentioned are aimed at the general population eating a non-organic, factory farmed, processed diet.

It is very clear that for 99% of us, eating a lot of vegetables, i.e., a plant based diet, offers the opportunity for nutrient density. Terry Wahls' incredible story, "Minding Your Mitochondria" is pretty convincing, and the idea of eating 3 cups a day each of leafy green things, colorful things, and sulfur containing things is a good one.

That said, we cannot get all the nutrients we need from plants. I wish it were so, but learned the hard way, we just can't. And, with the recent research on CFS suggesting we need more amino acids and lipids, it becomes critical that we get enough protein and healthy fats. Applying a dogmatic "heart healthy" diet to a CFS patient might be counterproductive.

Why?

- gut dysbiosis is noted in CFS. Could be due to food allergies, overabundance of carbohydrates causing candida, imbalanced microbiome, etc. Pre and probiotics, a low sugar diet, and digestive enzymes can help the body assimilate all the nutrients from food.

- amino acids are needed in increased amounts. Rather than .8g/kg, many of us need 1.2-1.6g/kg of protein daily, which is difficult to get from vegan sources (exactly how many beans can you eat??)

- fats are essential for hormone production, cell membrane health, neuro cognitive function and detoxification.

- certain nutrients, particularly vitamins B12 and D, some minerals and aminos, and essential fats are more readily available from animal, rather than plant based sources.

- grains can be very problematic. Many are hard to digest, laden with the carcinogenic mitochondrial toxin, RoundUp, and are relatively nutrient poor. Many of us are gluten sensitive, if not full blown celiac, and gluten can cause inflammation and gut dysbiosis.

- sugar, in any form, and including carbohydrates, is not healthy. It promotes brain dysfunction, cancer, obesity, and diabetes. Yes, the brain likes glucose, but fat and protein can convert to make thecglucise the body needs. Limiting fruits to low sugar, nutrient dense varieties, avoiding sugar and all processed carbs, and limiting or avoiding grains bring us down to a lower carbohydrate intake that avoids the consequences of too much sugar.

All this leads to a Paleo to ketogenic diet. The research is supporting higher fat, moderate protein, lower carb macronutrients consumption. And, at least anecdotally, CFS patients need as many macronutrients as they can get, with many of us supplementing additionally.

My doctor, who generally likes vegan diets, has specifically prescribed a ketogenic diet for me, with lots of non starchy vegetables and as much protein as I can eat and still be in ketosis. My labs support this, too. It's helped my brain and energy, and pretty easy to stick with. And I weigh 30lbs. less than 7 years ago, when I was on that "healthy" vegetarian diet that led to my cancer (I kicked the cancer eating more organic red meat than I'd eaten in years, along with a lot of veggies...)

The right amounts of nutrients will vary for each of us, and it behooves us each to do a little experimenting to see what's right for each of us.

But the research on CFS patients seems to suggest a grain based vegan diet might be counterproductive to getting well. Humanely raised, unprocessed organic or wild animal proteins and fats are a natural part of the human diet and provide essential nutrients for wellness. And lots of organic vegetables.
 
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Empty

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Eggs are nutritious. People have been successful eating them for thousands of years.

TMAO becomes high in relation to gut dysbiosis. It can be resolved by balancing the gut and resveratrol.

http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/2/e02210-15.abstract

Hi Learner.

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/eggs/

Despite the powerful egg industry’s best efforts to put a “healthy” spin on egg consumption, eggs contain high levels of cholesterol and may contain carcinogenic retroviruses, heterocyclic amines, toxic pollutants (such as arsenic, perfluorochemicals like PCB, phthalates, flame retardant chemicals, dioxins), and Salmonella (see here and here). Consuming just one egg per day may significantly shorten our lifespans, increase the levels of the cancer-promoting growth hormone IGF-1, and increase our risk of heart disease, kidney stones, stroke, type 2 diabetes, gestational diabetes, and some types of cancer (such as pancreatic, breast, and prostate).

Eating a plant-based diet may improve mood, lead to weight loss, lower the risk of cataracts, neurological diseases, food poisoning, heart disease, diabetes, asthma, help reverse rheumatoid arthritis, and may increase lifespan. This may be due in part to the arachidonic acid, cholesterol, sulfuric acid, choline, methionine, and sex hormones in eggs and the relative lack of antioxidant phytonutrients.

This may be a much easier way to follow all of the links and information on eggs and a fully nutritious plant based diet. :)

Up until relatively recently I still held the belief that eggs were healthy (even though I did not consume them).


P.S.:
From "Spin" with some funny FOI clips... you are not allowed to state that eggs are safe, healthful or nutritious. You can say nutrient dense, as are twinkies and cola (because there is no legal definition of that phrase):

"Instead of safe, you can call eggs “fresh,” the USDA Marketing Service helpfully suggests. But you can’t call eggs “safe,” you cannot say eggs are “safe to eat,” can’t say they’re “safe,” can’t even mention “safety,” can’t say they’re “healthful.” All “[r]eferences to healthfulness must be deleted,” as well.
Wait a second. Eggs can’t really be called healthy? Eggs can’t even really be called safe? Says who? Says the United States Department of Agriculture."
 
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Empty

Well-Known Member
Eggs are nutritious. People have been successful eating them for thousands of years.

TMAO becomes high in relation to gut dysbiosis. It can be resolved by balancing the gut and resveratrol.

http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/2/e02210-15.abstract

"Where does this TMAO stuff come from? Our liver turns TMA into TMAO. Okay, where does TMA come from? Certain bacteria in our gut turn something in our diet called choline into TMA. Where is the highest concentration of choline found? Eggs, milk, and meats, including poultry and fish. So, when we eat these foods, our gut bacteria may make TMA, which is absorbed into our system, and oxidized by our liver into TMAO, which may then increase our risk of heart attack, stroke, and death."

It is resolved by not eating eggs, milk, meat, poultry and fish.
 

Learner

Active Member
"Where does this TMAO stuff come from? Our liver turns TMA into TMAO. Okay, where does TMA come from? Certain bacteria in our gut turn something in our diet called choline into TMA. Where is the highest concentration of choline found? Eggs, milk, and meats, including poultry and fish. So, when we eat these foods, our gut bacteria may make TMA, which is absorbed into our system, and oxidized by our liver into TMAO, which may then increase our risk of heart attack, stroke, and death."

It is resolved by not eating eggs, milk, meat, poultry and fish.

Actually, I'd looked into this recently as I've been taking a lot of NT Factor, l-carnitine, and acetyl-l-carnitine under a doctors supervision to repair mitochondrial membranes damaged by oxidative and nitrosative stress.

Concerned about the potential for TMAO myself due to the dire warnings I'd seen in the vegan community, I dug into researching the topic and found that it's how the gut fauna are processing the nutrients that determines amount of TMA and TMAO production.

Wanting to be sure, I also reached out to a doctor who is a noted supplement expert who said gut dysbiosis is the critical determinant.

Mitochondrial function depends on ample phospholipids, and choline is essential. I'm interested in getting well, and have little patience for dogma. Factual information applied to us as individuals will help us get the care we need to beat CFS.

This is a good summary of the benefits of choline from draxe.com:
Choline is a macronutrient that’s important for liver function, normallbrain development, nerve function,muscle movement, supporting energy levels and maintaining a healthymetabolism. Choline is present in the form of phosphatidycholine, a compound that makes up the structural component of fat, and thus can be found in different types of foods that naturally contain certain fats. Choline plays a part in several important processes within the body that are carried out hundreds of times, every single day.

Choline is a water soluble nutrient that is related to other vitamins, such asfolate and those in the B vitamin complex family. Just like B vitamins, choline plays a similar role in terms of supporting energy and brain function, as well as keeping the metabolism active.

What is choline most beneficial for? Choline helps in the process of methylation, which is used to create DNA, for nerve signaling, and fordetoxification. It’s also important for the functioning of a key neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, which similarly helps nerves to communicate and muscles to move, acts as an anti-aging neurotransmitter, and performs other basic processes.

Choline is not actually considered a mineral or a vitamin, but is known to be an essential micronutrient needed for many functions of the body, especially for brain function. So while at this time there isn’t an official Daily Value Recommendation for Choline established by the USDA, it’s important to avoid a choline deficiency to help support various systems throughout the body, including the nervous, endocrine,digestive and reproductive systems.

Personally, I want all of the above systems to work, don't you? ;)
 

Empty

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Lets look and see what Mic The Vegan has to say :) (and the paleo microbiologist leading the study)

 

Learner

Active Member
The most important thing is "could these cavemen have been vegan?"

One might assume your participation in this forum is because you or a loved one suffers from ME/CFS, MCAS, or fibromyalgia and you're searching for a way to become healthy.

Recent research has shown that patients like us are less likely to metabolize glucose properly, that we likely have increased needs for amino acids, B vitamins (especially B12), and lipids to feed cell and mitochondrial membranes, and that we share 35% or so of biochemical abnormalities as a group, but that the rest is highly individual.

The most important thing, therefore is to find an individual diet that promotes health and not to jump on the bandwagon of some fad diet, vegan or otherwise.

Though I do know a fellow patient who beat a glioblastoma at age 28 with a ketogenic vegan diet, most vegan diets tend to be carbohydrate heavy, and there are many former vegans that became diabetic.

My lab results say I need huge amounts of B12 and amino acids and my brain fog cleared by increasing saturated fat, while my cholesterol stayed low. While your Neanderthal video is entertaining, it is not at all convincing that this is a diet that would be helpful for me, even though I eat lots of vegetables.

You seem devoted to a vegan diet. Are you well? Have lots of energy? Carrying on a normal life? If so, then why are you here? If not, maybe you'll benefit from reviewing the research Cort has been sharing lately, and looking into applying it to your situation.

Gut dysbiosis can be a major reason for not digesting fats and protein properly. A high carb diet with lots of grains and fruit can promote gut dysbiosis. Fixing it might help you get the full benefits from protein and fat.
 

Empty

Well-Known Member
WTH : New Film Being Released.

Trailer here, looks good.

What The Health http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/

Premier live streams on this website March 16th to 19th at a reduced price.

Half of the proceeds go to "Food Not Bombs" which I have never heard of before but sounds ethical, doesn't it. :)
http://www.foodnotbombs.net/new_site/faq.php (Q9 lol)


What The Health: Great film.

Highly recommend watching. Really well made.

It was packed with info so I will just mention a few random points here:

The WHO looked at 800 studies from 10 different countries finding a direct link to consuming processed meat and cancer. The Experts concluded that each 50g portion of processed meat eaten daily increases the risk of colorectal cancer by 18%.

Processed meats include Hot Dogs, bacon, sausage, salami, ham, peperoni, cold cuts deli slices etc. The WHO classes these as a Group 1 carcinogen (The same group as cigarettes, asbestos and plutonium).

Red Meat is classed by the WHO as a group 2 carcinogen.


The cheeseburger Laws, I had never heard of before. (The commonsense consumption act 2009). The amount of so called health organisations who refused or backed out of interviews when the issue of diet was raised was shocking. Also, looking at who sponsors them reminded me that I have hairs on the back of my neck. What Edward Snowden had to say was chilling too.
Eg: American Cancer society taking money from Tyson (one of the largest meat producers), YUm (Pizza Hut, KFC, tacco bell), Heart Association has a massive list of meat and dairy backers.


Dr. Milton Mills MD Critical Care Physician was asked:

"Do we have to eat meat to get enough complete protein?"



"First of all, all protein is made by plants. I'll state that again for the record. All Protein is initially made by plants. And it is not necessary to eat animal tissue in order to get protein. Only plants have the ability to take Nitrogen from the air, break those molecules apart and incorporate the Nitrogen into amino acids and make protein. Any protein you get from an animal is simply recycled plant protein".

If you eat enough plant based calories you are eating optimal amounts of protein. Cronometer is a super tool to see this.

Plant protein is best because of its combined qualities, anti-oxidants, fibre etc. and because we are frugivores. I have written a post on this in this thread.

Resource: Proteinaholic http://proteinaholic.com/







Dr Neal Barnard talks about diet and diabetes:

"Meat and Fat causes diabetes. Diabetes is not and never was caused by eating High Carb diet. Look into the muscle cells of the body and they are building up tiny particles of fat causing insulin resistance. What that means is the sugar can't get into the cells where it belongs and so it builds up in the blood and that is diabetes".


Dr. Garth Davis MD:

"There was an epic study of 500,000 people. The more carbs you ate - the less diabetes you have. But meat was strongly [correlated]. The starches/carbs are good for you- they're not bad for you.

When you eat sugar you don't get inflammation right away - you don't get plaques forming in your vessels - body stores most of it as glycogen or burns it off as calories. The focus on sugar has taken all the focus off meat and dairy, eggs, pork, turkey, chicken..."


Dr.Greger MD:

"Best results ever received, compared to surgical, medical, or any intervention of any kind, for MS was from a plant based diet".



Take human cancer cells, put them in a petri dish. After only 2 weeks of a plant based diet, drip the Vegan Blood onto them. What do you think happened? :)
 
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Empty

Well-Known Member
One might assume your participation in this forum is because you or a loved one suffers from ME/CFS, MCAS, or fibromyalgia and you're searching for a way to become healthy.

Recent research has shown that patients like us are less likely to metabolize glucose properly, that we likely have increased needs for amino acids, B vitamins (especially B12), and lipids to feed cell and mitochondrial membranes, and that we share 35% or so of biochemical abnormalities as a group, but that the rest is highly individual.

The most important thing, therefore is to find an individual diet that promotes health and not to jump on the bandwagon of some fad diet, vegan or otherwise.

Though I do know a fellow patient who beat a glioblastoma at age 28 with a ketogenic vegan diet, most vegan diets tend to be carbohydrate heavy, and there are many former vegans that became diabetic.

My lab results say I need huge amounts of B12 and amino acids and my brain fog cleared by increasing saturated fat, while my cholesterol stayed low. While your Neanderthal video is entertaining, it is not at all convincing that this is a diet that would be helpful for me, even though I eat lots of vegetables.

You seem devoted to a vegan diet. Are you well? Have lots of energy? Carrying on a normal life? If so, then why are you here? If not, maybe you'll benefit from reviewing the research Cort has been sharing lately, and looking into applying it to your situation.

Gut dysbiosis can be a major reason for not digesting fats and protein properly. A high carb diet with lots of grains and fruit can promote gut dysbiosis. Fixing it might help you get the full benefits from protein and fat.
 

Empty

Well-Known Member
My lab results say I need huge amounts of B12

B12 is not made by animals or plants.

This is the only supplement I take, simply as a precaution, since my labs were always optimal before supplementing. ( in the form of a spray).
 
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